Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

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Lowpe
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by Lowpe »

If you don't take Chungking, you will have an absolute nightmare there sometime in 44 and 45.

GetAssista
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by GetAssista »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
If you get say 5 VPs per turn multiplied by 1000 turns that is 5000 VPs.
But then you get ~4k VP swing by taking it as Japan, if fully built.
Surely all that HI and free arty etc compensate for the rest
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

If you don't take Chungking, you will have an absolute nightmare there sometime in 44 and 45.

Supply will still be nil. [:)]
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vicberg
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by vicberg »

It's a really interesting idea, but also a bit on the gamey side. The spawning on units in Chungking is a game convention to give China half a chance. IRL I'm sure units were spawned all over the country. Same with the 350 replacements each month.

With the level of destruction my ARTY is doing I can be patient now. If I'm lucky Bill might start getting worried and launch an attack.
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: vicberg

It's a really interesting idea, but also a bit on the gamey side. The spawning on units in Chungking is a game convention to give China half a chance. IRL I'm sure units were spawned all over the country. Same with the 350 replacements each month.

With the level of destruction my ARTY is doing I can be patient now. If I'm lucky Bill might start getting worried and launch an attack.

Yeah, It is kinda of gamey isn´t it. [:D]
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vicberg
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by vicberg »

August 7th 1942

China
I'm not sure what to do with Chungking. I'm taking out supply every day from the air. I'm doing major damage on the ground, but his AV, though jumping around a lot, is jumping higher overall. Also, his troop count from recon is continuing to increase and now showing 408k worth of troops (160K stacking limit).

I'm starting to think an attack is needed soon, though it may be painful. Also, I have 162k worth of troops (slightly overstack), 10 divisions, 20 ART, 5 ARM Regiments and 1 ARM Division. I have 1 HQ (China Command) in the hex and 4 HQs (1 Army and 3 Corp) 1 hex away. Support is showing red for most of the IDs. I'm debating on whether to remove one of the divisions (220 AV, low experience and still heavily disrupted) and put all the HQ in the hex for support/motorized support. I'm not sure what the affect of support does on a combat.


Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 129436 troops, 1390 guns, 790 vehicles, Assault Value = 3756

Defending force 267203 troops, 721 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7536

Allied ground losses:
1519 casualties reported
Squads: 83 destroyed, 57 disabled
Non Combat: 14 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 19 (8 destroyed, 11 disabled)

Assaulting units:
13th Tank Regiment
59th Division
40th Division
1st Tank Division
69th Division
34th Division
12th Tank Regiment
6th Division
23rd Tank Regiment
26th Division
70th Division
41st Division
39th Division
15th Tank Regiment
110th Division
11th Tank Regiment
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
China Expeditionary Army
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
10th Mortar Battalion
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
1st Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion
12th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion

Defending units:
95th Chinese Corps
69th Chinese Corps
62nd Chinese Corps
82nd Chinese Corps
43rd Chinese Corps
55th Chinese Corps
33rd Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
45th Chinese Corps
52nd Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Cavalry Corps
44th Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps
73rd Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
77th Chinese Corps
32nd Chinese Corps
31st Chinese Corps
93rd Chinese Corps
38th Chinese Corps
9th Chinese Corps
91st Chinese Corps
89th Chinese Corps
87th Chinese Corps
41st Chinese Corps
12th Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
84th Chinese Corps
64th Chinese Corps
22nd Chinese Corps
42nd Chinese Corps
47th Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Corps
15th Chinese Corps
61st Chinese Corps
19th Chinese Corps
90th Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Corps
48th Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
20th Chinese Corps
39th Chinese Corps
34th Separate Brigade
16th Group Army
Central Reserve
20th Artillery Regiment
4th Heavy Mortar Regiment
6th Chinese Base Force
4th War Area
19th Group Army
18th Artillery Regiment
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment
CAF HQ
6th Construction Regiment
49th AA Regiment
14th Construction Regiment
26th Group Army
9th War Area
China Command
9th Group Army
41st AA Regiment
6th War Area
21st Group Army
14th Group Army
35th Group Army
3rd Group Army
5th Construction Regiment
6th Group Army
83rd Chinese Corps
18th Group Army
22nd Artillery Regiment
7th Group Army
37th Group Army
2nd Group Army
17th Chinese Corps
56th AT Gun Regiment
20th Group Army
13th Group Army
7th Artillery Regiment
4th Group Army
11th Chinese Base Force
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Lowpe
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by Lowpe »

First off, do a comparison of land units in Chungking, go back to your first attack there.

This will tell you the number of infantry units respawned there with 30% combat squads and no guns.

I definitely would pull out your disabled troops one hex back to rest and recover. You want to attack with low disruption and low fatigue. You may even rest in the town to the west.

Patience, and realize Chungking is going to be a long siege battle. Keep pounding away daily with bombardments and bombing.

Is there any AA left firing? Try flying some single engine divebombers in to use up the machine gun AA ammo, especially on days you are planning on attacking.
vicberg
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by vicberg »

Still unclear on what "support" does. With the HQs 1 hex away, I'm definitely lacking. So go with 9 IDs and all the HQs to have sufficient "support". This gets me back under stacking limits also.

I've scheduled 4 sentai to do a 1000 foot airfield run. They won't hit a darn thing because it's it's a LOW skill, but it should help me figure out what the supply situation is there.

Comparing my first attack to the second, and I'm not sure what to make of this, he had 22 Corp on the first attack. He now has 44 Corp, so approx 1/2 of his ground troops would be respawn at 30% and no guns. Starting with 18 Auxiliary units (HQs, ART,Bases, etc), he now has 38. Don't know how they respawn, but figure similar. I'll see how this airfield attack goes to determine if he's still has supply.
vicberg
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by vicberg »

So, taking into account FOW, I've already taken out this month his replacements, especially if I'm removing enough supply in addition. I haven't killed any units (on purpose) in the last few weeks, so doubtful much more will be respawning. The respawns are most likely the cause for the tremendous over stack.

According to Bill, there's a roll for being over stacked to determine if disruption occurs. Somehow during the last combat, all of his units made their rolls. Is this the experience of others? Also, do you base stacking on all troops (first line and second) that are in the hex or simply the first line troops? In the last attack, he showed 145k of troops attacking, when there was 300k in the hex according to recon.
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Lowpe
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by Lowpe »

Excess support needs be in hex, and I believe in combat mode. That way they can arrange movies, sake parties, etc., etc.
vicberg
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by vicberg »

August 8th, 1942

NoPac
Sweeps from Dora against kodiak net about equal losses. For some reason, I'm happy with equal losses. The sub war has heated up as he got a fish into an AP and a DD over the last 2 days and I've been scoring numerous hits against his subs.

China
The 1000 foot airfield attacks were met with NO flak. So I'm assuming no supply. Hold onto hats because I've scheduled an attack for tomorrow. I'm braced for heavy losses and not too worried as I know my ARTY continue to take out his squads.

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 120440 troops, 1322 guns, 790 vehicles, Assault Value = 3564

Defending force 270805 troops, 708 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7603

Allied ground losses:
1784 casualties reported
Squads: 65 destroyed, 49 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
vicberg
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by vicberg »

August 9th, 1942

Siege of Chungking
[/i]I'm not too unhappy with these results. Someone like Lowpe seems to be a wizard at predicting the number of attacks that will be needed in the future. 1 fort level dropped and I destroyed more units than he did, but my disablements were huge. Out of the 9 divisions, 4 are trashed and 5 are about 1/2 strength now. I'm moving those 4 trashed divisions to the city to the west and leaving the remaining 5. I'll move China Command west also to draw more supplies and speed the recovery.

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 122531 troops, 1324 guns, 1147 vehicles, Assault Value = 3580

Defending force 268834 troops, 705 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7470

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Japanese adjusted assault: 1276

Allied adjusted defense: 2863

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
23650 casualties reported
Squads: 233 destroyed, 2408 disabled
Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 244 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 124 disabled
Guns lost 90 (7 destroyed, 83 disabled)
Vehicles lost 256 (30 destroyed, 226 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
4624 casualties reported
Squads: 305 destroyed, 225 disabled
Non Combat: 61 destroyed, 136 disabled
Engineers: 5 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 54 (35 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Units destroyed 2

Assaulting units:
40th Division
59th Division
39th Division
23rd Tank Regiment
1st Tank Division
69th Division
13th Tank Regiment
34th Division
15th Tank Regiment
6th Division
12th Tank Regiment
110th Division
41st Division
26th Division
11th Tank Regiment
11th Army
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
23rd Army
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Army
China Expeditionary Army
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
10th Mortar Battalion
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
North China Area Army
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
12th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion

Defending units:
1st Chinese Cavalry Corps
90th Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Corps
73rd Chinese Corps
69th Chinese Corps
22nd Chinese Corps
38th Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps
47th Chinese Corps
95th Chinese Corps
82nd Chinese Corps
33rd Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
42nd Chinese Corps
64th Chinese Corps
67th Chinese Corps
32nd Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
44th Chinese Corps
62nd Chinese Corps
45th Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
41st Chinese Corps
52nd Chinese Corps
19th Chinese Corps
9th Chinese Corps
77th Chinese Corps
12th Chinese Corps
84th Chinese Corps
15th Chinese Corps
91st Chinese Corps
48th Chinese Corps
87th Chinese Corps
55th Chinese Corps
89th Chinese Corps
20th Chinese Corps
31st Chinese Corps
61st Chinese Corps
93rd Chinese Corps
34th Separate Brigade
56th AT Gun Regiment
6th Chinese Base Force
14th Construction Regiment
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment
3rd Group Army
26th Group Army
6th War Area
18th Group Army
China Command
9th Group Army
35th Group Army
7th Artillery Regiment
20th Group Army
4th War Area
CAF HQ
83rd Chinese Corps
2nd Group Army
43rd Chinese Corps
9th War Area
37th Group Army
4th Heavy Mortar Regiment
16th Group Army
21st Group Army
22nd Artillery Regiment
5th Construction Regiment
41st AA Regiment
1st Artillery Regiment
7th Group Army
13th Group Army
14th Group Army
18th Artillery Regiment
49th AA Regiment
20th Artillery Regiment
39th Chinese Corps
Central Reserve
17th Chinese Corps
6th Construction Regiment
19th Group Army
4th Group Army
29th Group Army
6th Group Army
11th Chinese Base Force
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Lowpe
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by Lowpe »

He is in deep trouble...keep the bombardments up and the bombing. Make sure your repairing troops are split into thirds with plentiful supply. Double check all your troops prep.

Double check your leaders in the big divisions.

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Simonsez
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by Simonsez »

About what you should expect. Assume you have both Corps and Army HQ's within range to get the max possible AV bump and he has negatives for all the things you can trigger so that is good. Keep bombing the airfield to keep the forts from regenerating and bombardments going between ground attacks. This is Leningrad, not the Falaise (sp?) pocket. Rest your guys to recover the disablements and try again when your AV has recovered. You're doing it right, it's just your expectations that are off! [:D]
Simonsez

It's a trap!
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witpqs
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by witpqs »

And be looking at the trashed units to see which ones, if any, you want to buy out for less PP while they are in that state.
vicberg
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by vicberg »

Splitting into thirds increases recovery time? Did not know that and very good to know. I've quintuple checked my command/army/corp HQ, divisions and even went so far as to change my ARTY leaders. Probably a waste there, but I wanted to be sure.
You're doing it right, it's just your expectations that are off!

I've adjusted my expectations in this game. Ranting done and thanks for the soap box. [:)]

My most trashed division is now at 27AV and only 700 PP. I'll pick that guy up in a couple of days.
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witpqs
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by witpqs »

Splitting into thirds increases recovery time? Did not know that and very good to know.
The way you phrase the question, yes and no. Here is the scoop AFAIK.

When you split the unit into thirds, each one gets a chance at taking replacements and the chance of taking replacements is not reduced to 1/3 nor is the number (sometimes a unit gets multiple replacements of a device in one day). So if a unit is less than 100% TOE splitting it into thirds almost always speeds up the replacement process.

AFAIK splitting a unit into thirds does not speed up repair of disabled squads.

One sometimes drawback of splitting a unit into thirds is that the /B and /C sub-units get essentially random leaders. Sometimes they are good and sometimes they are bad (speaking in terms of unit recovery & taking replacements).

Rest mode is very important for a unit's recovery. 1) it speeds recovery of morale and fatigue, which in turn affect repair of disabled devices; 2) it makes the unit eligible to take replacements every day instead of every few days; however 3) long ago Michael checked the code and Rest mode does not (directly) speed up repair of disabled devices (but the first two points make it worthwhile).
vicberg
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by vicberg »

August 12th, 1942

SoPac
It looks like US Carriers close to Suva. KB is returning to Yokohama and will steam down immediately. This will delay a couple of carrier upgrades (Akagi and Amagi). I have quite a few Sentai of A6M3b Zeroes on Suva and the surrounding area. Netties are in Noumea. We'll see what happens.

Morning Air attack on Vava'u , at 141,165

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 115 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3b Zero x 11

Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 6
P-39D Airacobra x 8
P-40B Warhawk x 8
P-40E Warhawk x 10
F2A-3 Buffalo x 19
F4F-3 Wildcat x 24
F4F-4 Wildcat x 10
F2A-3 Buffalo x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3b Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed

China
Perhaps its the drop in forts or a greater degree of disruption, but this has been par for the course for the Artillery bombardments. A higher degree of casualties and destroyed squads overall. Also, some arial ground bombardments are seeing much higher results and only 1 air supply hit from about 8 Sentai performing airfield strikes (I think there's 8...there's 6 sentia in Hankow, 4 more in Wuchow, 4 more on Chungking and 1 on Kweiyang, plus the single 4E sentai from Canton that this mod provides doing a combination ground/air field strike

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 5577 troops, 339 guns, 340 vehicles, Assault Value = 1704

Defending force 259330 troops, 660 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 6918

Allied ground losses:
1740 casualties reported
Squads: 79 destroyed, 39 disabled
Non Combat: 13 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (3 destroyed, 1 disabled)
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Lowpe
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by Lowpe »

Not a waste changing the leaders in your ART units, especially the heavy monsters. They are Japan's equalizer, can't stress how important they are. Understand the difference between a dinky 75mm Mtn gun and a 15cm or better monsters. Mortars are really good in Chungking too, your 30cm mortars should be there if they aren't.

You now have a holistic attack on Chungking going: bombardments (aerial and ground), overstacking, reduced forts, low supply, disruption leading to KIA while your troops recover drinking sake and playing games nearby.

It only gets worse for Chungking defenders...go destroy some other Chinese units so they respawn there for even more LCU vp. Banzai! (But don't use Chungking troops for that...but if there are some surrounded Chinese units you can destroy do it now and you might destroy them again when Chungking falls.).
vicberg
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

Post by vicberg »

There's about 6 hexes with stragglers outside of Chungking. I have units (not from Chungking) converging on them. I was going to just beat them up a bit and not cause respawns, but you've changed my mind on that.
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