A couple of Naval questions

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juntoalmar
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A couple of Naval questions

Post by juntoalmar »

Hi,

So, I have started a Global War solitary (great way to learn if you have the patience, btw) and questions arise here and there.

- Naval transport. Can a transport embark a unit from different port and disembark it (or invade) in the same impulse? Let's say a Transport is in port A, and a organized land unit in port B. Can the transport move to Port B (or naval area of that port), embark the unit, continue moving and invade/disembark on Port C? (all in the same impulse and if there is enough movement and land operations available)

- Fleet overrun and rebase: I think I read of this long ago, but will comment here just in case I'm mistaken. I had a case of a fleet being overrun in port and being able to rebase to a base. The problem is that I didn't know where the base was! Finally I found it, but otherwise I was stuck as couldn't finish the phase (couldn't move the fleet to a sea area, and couldn't move to the a valid base as I couldn't find it). I guess some people would have reported this (wrongly) as a bug in the past, as it really looks you are stuck. Is there a way you can move from valid rebase hex to next valid hex? (something similar to the left & right arrows to choose next unit to move).


Thanks in advance!
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paulderynck
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by paulderynck »

Naval Transport - by the rules - yes, although you'd end up in such a low sea box that the invasion odds would be very poor. Even the QE (the fastest TRS) would be in a sea box no higher than the 2 (only the 1 or zero, if the sea zone is not adjacent to port B). Also if the final sea zone is adjacent to Port B, why bother sailing through Port B and waste movement points and range? You can simply enter the sea zone, go to the highest sea box possible, and then embark the unit and later in the impulse invade with it. In any event the capability to move out, go to Port B and embark a unit there, and move onward - is currently not working in MWiF and resides on the bug list.

Fleet Overrun - good suggestion, I'm not sure there is anything in the game to show you where the valid destinations are currently.
Paul
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juntoalmar
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by juntoalmar »

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Naval Transport - by the rules - yes, although you'd end up in such a low sea box that the invasion odds would be very poor. Even the QE (the fastest TRS) would be in a sea box no higher than the 2 (only the 1 or zero, if the sea zone is not adjacent to port B). Also if the final sea zone is adjacent to Port B, why bother sailing through Port B and waste movement points and range? You can simply enter the sea zone, go to the highest sea box possible, and then embark the unit and later in the impulse invade with it. In any event the capability to move out, go to Port B and embark a unit there, and move onward - is currently not working in MWiF and resides on the bug list.

Ok, then I think I´ve been doing something wrong as I couldn´t. I just wanted to know that I could move the unit from port B to C in the same impulse, without the need of being one impulse in the sea area. At the moment I was trying to do it by taking a transport from Shanghai, picking up an infantry in a different port in China and joining it to an existing invasion or disembarking in a different port.

So can I:

1) Move the fleet out of the port A to sea area X
2) Load from coastal hex from port B
3) Keep moving the transport to a different sea area (let's say, Y)
4) Disembark to port C (or invade from a poor sea box)

all in the same impulse?

Thanks for your help, Paul
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paulderynck
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by paulderynck »

Oh... no, whenever you move into a sea area, and embark a unit that you did not begin in the same port with - you must stop in that sea area.

I hope I am not misunderstanding your questions.
Paul
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juntoalmar
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by juntoalmar »

Hi Paul,

Thanks again. No, you understood exactly what I asked (embark and keep moving). But, as the manual says:

11.4.5 Embarking Units. [...] A TRS can embark organized units it starts the impulse stacked with, or it can embark them when it moves through the port they’re in.

Then, I understand I can:
1) move the TRS from port A to port B,
2) embark unit from port B
3) keep moving to a sea area

am I wrong? It maybe some language misunderstanding of mine, but when I read "move through" I understand the TRS can keep moving after moves in port B and embarks units.
(my humble blog about wargames, in spanish) http://cabezadepuente.blogspot.com.es/
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Orm
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by Orm »

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

Hi Paul,

Thanks again. No, you understood exactly what I asked (embark and keep moving). But, as the manual says:

11.4.5 Embarking Units. [...] A TRS can embark organized units it starts the impulse stacked with, or it can embark them when it moves through the port they’re in.

Then, I understand I can:
1) move the TRS from port A to port B,
2) embark unit from port B
3) keep moving to a sea area

am I wrong? It maybe some language misunderstanding of mine, but when I read "move through" I understand the TRS can keep moving after moves in port B and embarks units.
This is allowed. (But, at the moment, it might be bugged)

There is a difference between embarking in port and embarking at sea.
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett
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Joseignacio
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by Joseignacio »

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

Hi Paul,

Thanks again. No, you understood exactly what I asked (embark and keep moving). But, as the manual says:

11.4.5 Embarking Units. [...] A TRS can embark organized units it starts the impulse stacked with, or it can embark them when it moves through the port they’re in.

Then, I understand I can:
1) move the TRS from port A to port B,
2) embark unit from port B
3) keep moving to a sea area

am I wrong? It maybe some language misunderstanding of mine, but when I read "move through" I understand the TRS can keep moving after moves in port B and embarks units.
This is allowed. (But, at the moment, it might be bugged)

There is a difference between embarking in port and embarking at sea.

+1 It's allowed to pick an organized unit in a port you are entering, and carry it with you.

This is not useful for invasions, as mentioned, cause if the invaded area is far, the level of the sea box you reach gets too low, and if it is close, usually (or always) the system that Paul writes in post #2, is better. However, it could be useful sometimes, like sending The Queens from Gibraltar, loading a unit that you don't really need there in Egypt and sending it to Greece or Yugoslavia.
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Courtenay
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by Courtenay »

Unfortunately, there is a bug and this does not work. What is really annoying is that until a year ago, it did work.

Barring possible game stopping bugs caused by the change in compiler (which I am not sure actually exist), in my opinion this is the most annoying bug currently affecting solitaire play.
I thought I knew how to play this game....
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juntoalmar
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by juntoalmar »

Thanks. I thought I was doing something wrong or misunderstanding the rules. Is it worthy to notify to Steve or is it well known bug already?
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Courtenay
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by Courtenay »

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

Thanks. I thought I was doing something wrong or misunderstanding the rules. Is it worthy to notify to Steve or is it well known bug already?
Trust me, Steve has heard about this bug many times. And that is just from me. [:)]
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Joseignacio
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by Joseignacio »

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

Hi Paul,

Thanks again. No, you understood exactly what I asked (embark and keep moving). But, as the manual says:

11.4.5 Embarking Units. [...] A TRS can embark organized units it starts the impulse stacked with, or it can embark them when it moves through the port they’re in.

Then, I understand I can:
1) move the TRS from port A to port B,
2) embark unit from port B
3) keep moving to a sea area

am I wrong? It maybe some language misunderstanding of mine, but when I read "move through" I understand the TRS can keep moving after moves in port B and embarks units.
This is allowed. (But, at the moment, it might be bugged)

There is a difference between embarking in port and embarking at sea.

+1 It's allowed to pick an organized unit in a port you are entering, and carry it with you.

This is not useful for invasions, as mentioned, cause if the invaded area is far, the level of the sea box you reach gets too low, and if it is close, usually (or always) the system that Paul writes in post #2, is better. However, it could be useful sometimes, like sending The Queens from Gibraltar, loading a unit that you don't really need there in Egypt and sending it to Greece or Yugoslavia.

(clarifying a little mistake)

To be true, there is one Range too short for this. You'd need to disembark the unit at the Aegean from sea, cause you wouldn't reach the port in the movement. You would if you picked it from Morocco, Argelia, Tunis, Malta, ... [:)]
Braig
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by Braig »

In regards to your overrun question, I believe somewhere along your top row of dropdowns there is a place to find your "valid moves". I believe that will show you where you can go, or it will tell you that there is not a valid path and your units are done.
nilssone85
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by nilssone85 »

Sorry for stealing the thread. Do you have to move through the port of Suez to go from the red sea to the eastern med.? I.E costing one movement from the red sea to the suez port and then one from the suez port to the eastern med.
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Joseignacio
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by Joseignacio »

No. You don't need to cross Suez. RAW:
11.4.4 Naval movement restrictions
1. You can’t move naval units between Kiel and the North Sea if an enemy major power controls any of the hexes adjacent to the Kiel Canal.
2. You can’t move naval units between the Eastern Mediterranean and the Red Sea, or between Suez and the Eastern Mediterranean, if a major power you are at war with controls any of the hexes adjacent to the Suez Canal.
...

So, "sensu contrario", you can move them if the condition (enemy control) is not met, since nowhere in the rules tells you opposite.
nilssone85
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by nilssone85 »

Then there is an error in the fleet movement calculation. I could not move a convoy from western india to the eastern med. It should be 3 steps, but I could only move it to the red sea or suez. (playing as brittain with no enemy units anywhere).
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Orm
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by Orm »

Rough Seas, Out of Supply, or beginning the impulse stacked with another Major Power ship could be the culprit here.
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nilssone85
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by nilssone85 »

Didnt spot we did have the "in the presense of the enemy" on. Rough seas rule I can't find though!
Sorry for the thread-stealing and tnx for the answers...
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Joseignacio
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by Joseignacio »

WIF RAW:
Rough Seas (SiF/CliF option 75)
During the naval movement step (see 11.4) only, each light cruiser, destroyer flotilla, TRS, (CoiF option 76: ASW, tanker) or convoy (CoiF option 76: or tanker) point that moves into 1 or more sea areas in blizzard or storm has its movement allowance and range reduced by 1 this step (note that this may prevent the unit from entering its final sea area).

Don't know if this option exists in MWIF yet.

**************************

As for "In the "presence of the enemy", it would be ok, provided that the area with enemy units that fulfill the conditions was the Eastern Mediterranean.
Option 19: (In the presence of the enemy) It costs a surface naval unit 2 points of its movement allowance (not range) to enter a sea area that contains a CV (with a carrier plane), SCS or aircraft unit controlled by an unsurprised (see 15.) major power it is at war with. This does not apply (i.e. you pay normal costs) if, at the start of the impulse, the sea area contained a friendly:
ï CV with a carrier plane; or
ï SCS; or
ï aircraft unit.
It also doesn’t apply to a naval unit returning to base nor if the only enemy units attempting to slow you down are aircraft during storm or blizzard.
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by paulderynck »

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

As for "In the "presence of the enemy", it would be ok, provided that the area with enemy units that fulfill the conditions was the Eastern Mediterranean.
Option 19: (In the presence of the enemy) It costs a surface naval unit 2 points of its movement allowance (not range) to enter a sea area that contains a CV (with a carrier plane), SCS or aircraft unit controlled by an unsurprised (see 15.) major power it is at war with. This does not apply (i.e. you pay normal costs) if, at the start of the impulse, the sea area contained a friendly:
ï CV with a carrier plane; or
ï SCS; or
ï aircraft unit.
It also doesn’t apply to a naval unit returning to base nor if the only enemy units attempting to slow you down are aircraft during storm or blizzard.
No, if it were the Eastern Med, the units could not enter because they cannot exceed their movement factor. If before that due to ITPOTE, they would not have had enough movement to get there.
Paul
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Joseignacio
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RE: A couple of Naval questions

Post by Joseignacio »

He couldn't get from Western India to the Med, but he could to Suez.

This means:

- The convoy leaves port towards the Arabian Sea. If there is ITPOTE in the Arabian sea, they could not reach Eastern Med NOR Suez.

- The convoy leaves the Arabian Sea towards Red Sea. If there is ITPOTE in the Red sea, they could not reach Eastern Med NOR Suez.

- The convoy leaves the Red Sea towards Eastern Med or SUez. If there is ITPOTE in Eastern Med, they could not reach Eastern Med BUT they could reach Suez, because it's a port in the Red Sea and doesn't suffer from ITPOTE.

That' what I mean, I don't know if I was clear enough before. [:)]
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