A glimpse of warships in the future?

Gamers can also use this forum to chat about any game related subject, news, rumours etc.

Moderator: maddog986

User avatar
warspite1
Posts: 41896
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: England

A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by warspite1 »

I don't know about you guys and gals, but this (modern warfare) just leaves me cold.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34077719
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
User avatar
zakblood
Posts: 22722
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19 am

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by zakblood »

future conflicts will be spaced based, land and air will all be drones, might not see it in our life times, but it seem's to be going in that direction, seems we can't blow up enough of our world so we need to go elsewhere for fun, ship looks fine to me, then again, tanks, planes and well almost everything are going the same way
Windows 11 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 22621) (22621.ni_release.220506-1250)
User avatar
Orm
Posts: 27755
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 7:53 pm
Location: Sweden

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Orm »

I suspect that the current, low tech, equipment will be around for a long time. Life is, unfortunately, cheap while high tech is expensive.
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett
User avatar
Orm
Posts: 27755
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 7:53 pm
Location: Sweden

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Orm »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I don't know about you guys and gals, but this (modern warfare) just leaves me cold.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34077719
We are at the end of an era.
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett
User avatar
Jagdtiger14
Posts: 1685
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:58 pm
Location: Miami Beach

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Jagdtiger14 »

The US Navy already has something like this. Check out the USS Zumwalt, and Sea Shadow. The US has building ships with "garages" for a while...the Marines use them.

It would be nice to see a friendly develop and deploy like this, sadly I don't see the Brits spending the money.
Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC
User avatar
zakblood
Posts: 22722
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19 am

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by zakblood »

we can't spend what we don't have, credit isn't for every nation, as we are so broke
Windows 11 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 22621) (22621.ni_release.220506-1250)
User avatar
Jagdtiger14
Posts: 1685
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:58 pm
Location: Miami Beach

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Jagdtiger14 »

Zak: Reduce non defense items...which I wont get into so the thread stays unlocked.

From a CNN article: Check out the new Virginia Class sub (12th of the class) USS John Warner...just had its sea trials. 7,800 tons, 337 feet long, $2 Billion. No periscope...instead a photonic mast (incl. high def, infrared video). Two sailors drive the sub in front of a wall of curved video screens.

One of the things I really like about it is that it launches drones of the deep: UUV's (unmanned underwater vehicles).
Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC
User avatar
warspite1
Posts: 41896
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: England

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Zak: Reduce non defense items...which I wont get into so the thread stays unlocked.

From a CNN article: Check out the new Virginia Class sub (12th of the class) USS John Warner...just had its sea trials. 7,800 tons, 337 feet long, $2 Billion. No periscope...instead a photonic mast (incl. high def, infrared video). Two sailors drive the sub in front of a wall of curved video screens.

One of the things I really like about it is that it launches drones of the deep: UUV's (unmanned underwater vehicles).
warspite1

We are in the middle of an austerity package as it is. There is no scope to reduce anything else - unless a PM wants to write his own resignation letter by cutting the NHS or Schools budget...
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Alchenar
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:17 am

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Alchenar »

Well the awkward truth is that for anything less than a full scale war against Russia/China the type 42/45's will be absolutely fine forever for chasing down smugglers and fending off pirates armed with RPGs. And if we do end up in a fighting war with Russia/China then the one or two super-stealth destroyers we can afford to build (hell, the US Navy only ended up ordering 3 Zumwalts) aren't going to make any difference in the grand scheme of things.

The concept is probably spot on, but as the US Navy discovered, even with military-industrial complex capture it's really hard to justify spending billions of dollars on a ship designed to defeat an enemy capacity that doesn't actually exist.

e: hell, the only reason the Zumwalt ever left the drawing board is because the US Congress has a dumb mandate that the Navy has to have a fire support capacity (regardless of whether or not that makes any military sense)
User avatar
Orm
Posts: 27755
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 7:53 pm
Location: Sweden

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Orm »

I wonder if it is worth the cost to build state of the art warships.

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett
User avatar
Chickenboy
Posts: 24520
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: Alchenar
Navy has to have a fire support capacity (regardless of whether or not that makes any military sense)

I still think there's a role for this-amphibious landings will always need ship to shore capabilities.
Image
User avatar
Capt. Harlock
Posts: 5379
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Capt. Harlock »

I wonder if it is worth the cost to build state of the art warships.

A very relevant question, but one almost impossible to answer. To my mind, a weapon system that is never used, because potential attackers were deterred from attacking, represents the greatest possible success. But how do you measure the cost in blood and treasure that was avoided, and how do you know what tipped the balance in the decision not to attack?
Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo
User avatar
Orm
Posts: 27755
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 7:53 pm
Location: Sweden

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Orm »

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

I wonder if it is worth the cost to build state of the art warships.

A very relevant question, but one almost impossible to answer. To my mind, a weapon system that is never used, because potential attackers were deterred from attacking, represents the greatest possible success. But how do you measure the cost in blood and treasure that was avoided, and how do you know what tipped the balance in the decision not to attack?
Well said.

---

If you can not afford all the weapon systems that you prefer. Would you prioritize ships or some other weapons system? Can you have 'good enough' when it comes to ships and other weapon systems?

I have a feeling that you can spend almost unlimited amounts of money on a weapons system and that most countries has a limited defence budget. So there is a risk that one weapons system get so much of the budget that the other suffers.

----

This is a difficult topic since a discussion of a defence budget is political. And how the available resources should be allocated is also political.
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett
User avatar
warspite1
Posts: 41896
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: England

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

I wonder if it is worth the cost to build state of the art warships.

A very relevant question, but one almost impossible to answer. To my mind, a weapon system that is never used, because potential attackers were deterred from attacking, represents the greatest possible success. But how do you measure the cost in blood and treasure that was avoided, and how do you know what tipped the balance in the decision not to attack?
Well said.

---

If you can not afford all the weapon systems that you prefer. Would you prioritize ships or some other weapons system? Can you have 'good enough' when it comes to ships and other weapon systems?

I have a feeling that you can spend almost unlimited amounts of money on a weapons system and that most countries has a limited defence budget. So there is a risk that one weapons system get so much of the budget that the other suffers.

----

This is a difficult topic since a discussion of a defence budget is political. And how the available resources should be allocated is also political.
warspite1

True but we can make it apolitical by using examples from the past. Resource allocation is very key. Mussolini blowing his wad on biplanes when a staggered build up of military hardware leading up to war would have been more advantageous.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
JamesM
Posts: 1024
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 8:00 am
Location: QLD, Australia

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by JamesM »

Looking at the artist impression it looks like it would have to have a very wide beam, so how will it go fitting into some ports? Also can anyone comment if this design may be more stable in rough seas?
User avatar
Jagdtiger14
Posts: 1685
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:58 pm
Location: Miami Beach

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Jagdtiger14 »

Or Ronald Reagan's build up in the early-mid 80's...and his using this (tech) leverage at negotiations with the USSR at Reykjavik...which in large part began/led to the downfall of the Soviet Union.

Is 30+ years ago too soon for this to be considered political? Mussolini reference above seems to be safe.
Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC
User avatar
rhondabrwn
Posts: 2570
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:47 am
Location: Snowflake, Arizona

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by rhondabrwn »

Here is the future of warships!

Image
Attachments
avengershelicarrier.jpg
avengershelicarrier.jpg (40.24 KiB) Viewed 214 times
Love & Peace,

Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(
User avatar
Chickenboy
Posts: 24520
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Here is the future of warships!

Image
[:D]
Image
User avatar
Chickenboy
Posts: 24520
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

I wonder if it is worth the cost to build state of the art warships.

A very relevant question, but one almost impossible to answer. To my mind, a weapon system that is never used, because potential attackers were deterred from attacking, represents the greatest possible success. But how do you measure the cost in blood and treasure that was avoided, and how do you know what tipped the balance in the decision not to attack?
Well said.

---

If you can not afford all the weapon systems that you prefer. Would you prioritize ships or some other weapons system? Can you have 'good enough' when it comes to ships and other weapon systems?

I have a feeling that you can spend almost unlimited amounts of money on a weapons system and that most countries has a limited defence budget. So there is a risk that one weapons system get so much of the budget that the other suffers.

----

This is a difficult topic since a discussion of a defence budget is political. And how the available resources should be allocated is also political.

Aye. I vacillate as well, Orm. While there are some modern countries that are content with fielding "last generation" technological militaries as being "good enough", there's a cost for doing so. That cost is either insufficient capability when it is needed or additional blood to pay for the technological deficit accepted and assumed over the years.

So long as political leaders are willing to stand up to the voters and say, "Yes, we will have more soldiers / sailors die if we were to ever get into a significant armed conflict. Why? Because we made the 'choice' to spend our monies elsewhere and quietly assume this risk a long time ago." Of course, no politician would say such a thing because that applies blame on the voters that are at least partially culpable in those situations. Those politicians tend to lose their support for being harsh realists.

But in warfare, either blood or treasure must be paid. Sometimes you can reduce the amount of blood by more treasure. My personal bias is that that is a good trade-off.
Image
Zorch
Posts: 7087
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:21 pm

RE: A glimpse of warships in the future?

Post by Zorch »

My weapons platform of the future:


Image
Attachments
ussnj.jpg
ussnj.jpg (109.15 KiB) Viewed 213 times
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”