Medics

[CGGrognard]

I agree. Just finished watching The Pacific again, and the soldiers called up to man the litters were the mortar team. And yes, they were
shot at, as they attempted to retrieve the wounded. As you stated, the injured and KIA were tended to in the cease fire. It was my
understanding that the program would determine if a soldier was "healed" sufficiently before returning to the next battle.
More importantly, I can't see many players filling valuable slots with medics for a battle. As it stands with GWTC and PITF, sometimes even
the second platoon can't be fully filled due to attrition.

[GeneralClausewitz]

I respect the fact that medics will likely not be in the game. I'm not designing it so I don't get to make that pick.

Having said that, I think it would be extremely realistic (and fun) to have medics in the game. The problem is how would they work? As others have pointed out, battlefield wounds are typically horrendous and can take weeks, months, and years to recover from (and some wounds will never heal). Even light wounds can sometimes result in a ticket to the rear, if only for a few days.

Nonetheless, medics could definitely be added in a way that makes sense and doesn't destroy immersion. One of the reasons that the survival rate of wounded soldiers was so much higher during WWII than in past wars was because medics were routinely attached to frontline units, ensuring first aid happened ASAP. Medics were often despised in the beginning of the war since many of them were conscientious objectors. However once a unit entered combat they became one of the most revered members of the unit, since they were often the difference between life and death. It happened regardless of the branch or country. Ask a Marine what they think of the Navy, and you'll likely get some colorful and derogatory comments. However if you ask a Marine what he thinks of Corpsmen (meaning Navy medics that are assigned to the Marines), you'll get the exact opposite reaction. Medics were a staple of frontline combat in WWII, so there's absolutely nothing ridiculous about them being in a game that portrays WWII combat. However they would have to be implemented realistically. Here's one way to do that:

-One soldier in each HQ unit would be a medic. They either don't have weapons at all, or are very lightly armed. Since both the Germans and Americans typically respected battlefield medics, regardless of which side they were on, medics typically refrained from carrying weapons, and in return the enemy usually refrained from intentionally hurting them. The Pacific War was the exact opposite, since the Japanese rarely respected medics, oftentimes using the red cross on their helmets as a bullseye. Medics in the Pacific almost always carried weapons, and rarely wore a red cross insignia so they wouldn't stand out. However this game is obviously set in the ETO, so Pacific War is irrelevant.

-The medic gives a morale boost either to the entire unit, or at least to squads that are within their command range. In practically all wars, one of the most demoralizing sights a soldier could witness was a wounded comrade that was not receiving medical attention. The typical reaction to this sight was "If that guy isn't getting help, I sure as hell won't get it either!" On the flipside, a soldier seeing a wounded comrade receiving good and speedy medical care was emboldened to braver feats, knowing they were in good hands if they were likewise wounded.

-A medic can temporarily "detach", or has a special ability, that allows them to recover wounded soldiers. The quicker a soldier is recovered, the more effective the ability. There is a small chance (maybe around 5% or so?) that a soldier who has been incapacitated will have their major wound become a minor wound.


Having said all this, the casualty system in CC is what really needs an overhaul. From my experience, the killed to wounded ratio in CC is about 1:1. In reality, the ratio was more like 1:3. It would add a lot more depth to the game if casualties followed this ratio, and it could give some great incentives to have your medic near the frontlines, ready to spring into action if anyone gets hit. Currently, it seems like it really doesn't matter much if a soldier has been killed or just wounded, since the outcome is the same. Adding medics into the game would give a reason to care whether a soldier has been killed or merely wounded.

[Nomada_Firefox]

At the end......I find all these theories very sub-realistic for a game very realistic.

[Rodmorg]

Don't be negative to some people's ideas, like you are to AOC.

[Nomada_Firefox]

Do not try change the mind from the people which they do not agree with you.

[wodin]

Medics healing men would turn it into an arcade game not a proper wargame. No thanks. However maybe getting victory points by using medics to get casualties off the field would be OK.

[Nomada_Firefox]

If I am not wrong, this game will be very similar to CC3 and at CC3, when you had wounded, you could rest the team or replace dead soldiers. It would be the correct and realistic way, never healing in the middle of a battle.

[bbyrne]

Adding Medics is a great idea. Not to magically heal the soldiers but to patch them up and evacuate them to the rear.
Morale would be low is injured soldiers were left to bleed out as troops advanced and left them behind. Waning morale would be limited if medics were able to provide first aid and evacuate soldiers to the rear. Imagine a scenario where a soldier is caught in an exposed area injured and under fire. Morale should plummet while this situation continues. If you provided cover fire and had the option to select a soldier to drag him out to a medic and carry him on a stretcher to the rear this would add another dimension to the game. You get moral dilemmas. Do you use two soldiers to drag this guy to the rear to boost morale or limit moral dropping or do you leave him to die? In some situations it may be preferable to leave him there as you lose two soldiers carrying him to the rear. Then there are real situations where soldiers get minor cuts and non incapacitating wounds. How about if you treat wounded enemy soldiers consistently then as the campaign continues they become more likely to surrender earlier expecting better treatment, if you summarily execute injured enemies then they should fight to the death Etc Etc.

A whole other dimension gets added.

[bbyrne]

A war game wanting to be realistic simply isnt realistic without medics.

[CGGrognard]

How about taking this idea one step further. Give each soldier under odds that they will offer first aid to their injured comrade.

[Seytan]

Medics and field hospitals would be good. So the units can get back into the fight.

[Nomada_Firefox]

Medics and field hospitals would be good. So the units can get back into the fight.

For a RTS yes as Men of War yes.

For a Wargame as Close Combat. Never.

But the lucky for me is how the Close Combat development team has told how there are not these things in the game and they do not agree with them.

[Rodmorg]

Buddy, you never know what can happen in the future.

[Kanov]

Medics are already in there in an abstract way... Or used to be in CC2 at least.

Why do you want medics running around in the battlefield anyway? what will happen when I target one of them with a flamethrower? that is some duke nukem edgy kid game situation that is going to develop.

Besides we've got enough units that rarely get used occupying valuable slots as it is, I don't want another unit I'll never pick, I've got enough trucks for that!

If you want to model medics in current CC that give morale to nearby troops, just create a unit named medics, give them no weapons and make them type command teams.

I do like this idea though:

How about taking this idea one step further. Give each soldier under odds that they will offer first aid to their injured comrade.

Men risked their lives for their wounded comrades, how about we see spontaneously one or two memebers of a squad try to go after their wounded comrade to put him out of harms way risking his life. I mean they risk their pixel-lives already in the most insane ways like assaulting tanks with small grenades, so this at least they would be risking their lives for something. The odds could be a parameter that could be moddable by existing nation in the files, like high for US troops and very low for japanese for example.

I would not want actual units of medics running arund on the tactical map though.

[SteveMcClaire]

The idea of having each wounded man tie up another soldier (or two) to tend to him is a good one, and one we've discussed from time to time. It's not something that we're likely to have time for in the first release of TBF, but definitely one to keep in mind.

Steve

[CGGrognard]

Morale and proximity could be two factors to determine if a soldier attempts to offer aid to a wounded soldier. The wounded soldiers' wounds would
have to fall in a "sweet" spot.

[Hexagon]

And why not add a med-pack as equipment in a squad to prevent a guy die??? or use it to made guy move from heavy injuried to capable of fight???

I refer that red is dead, nothing to do here, orange... use med-pack and hi become yellow, if is yellow become green.

Could be an order in the list(something like "apply 1st aid") with a limited number of uses... you avoid have running crazy soldiers in the map and made player more "powerfull" on his God mode as ruler of a group of little pixels [:D]

Othe history is what can do player out of battle to help their veterans return faster to battlefields.

[Gripen]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gripen

Let's be fair, the idea of adding a medic is realistic as they existed in WW2 on all sides.

The problem is where to include them, how to include them and what they would be doing, that's a discussion.

Personally I don't know where they are attached in the squads/hierarchy, I did a little searching but found various things but I think it was every platoon had one?
You could add one guy to the HQ unit, with a little with armband with a cross on it, right?

Then the next question, what does he do, what is the most realistic?
That would mean a small overhaul of the status's of the troops, probably adding some and letting the medic fix things. It's a tough question.
I'm not sure what is most realistic
One thing that is sure, you can't have him revive soldiers, maybe stop them from bleeding out (that would need additional status's), I would like that.

[Gripen]

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[Destraex]

No medics pls. Essentially any wounded soldier is ineffective for the rest of the battle and if you win you may recover some of the wounded that survived and they may come back in future battles.