Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-131 Russian Victory

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Peltonx
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by Peltonx »

Turn 70 GHC Armaments: 10,000 Manpower: 60,000 VP: 228

Armament Pts. Destroyed = 51
Heavy Industry Destroyed = 19
Factories: T-34 -60 Vehicles -25 SU2-12
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp: 5
Divisions: 86
Brigades: 42
AP total: 1220

Stavka OOB: 7,282,000 +73,000
GHC OOB: 3,888,000 +4,000

Mud hits all the major fronts and like the heat of summer my fishing trip ends :(

Better end to 42 then I expected, Choas plays like an old pro 95% of the time but the other 5% has major/minor brain farts.

Not many turns will be flipped until mid September
RL will be in full effect family/vacation/fishing/kids off to collage and other general RL fun .

Should be back to full play mode by October first.

I will start doing up-dates every 5 turns unless Stavka does something silly again.

42/43 winters tend to be generally boring.

GHC hopes to keep playing tag with Stavka mobile forces over the winter.
Armaments and manpower pools have started the normal climb and I expect them to be in the 100,000's by summer 43
and OOB to be 4.2 million.

GHC has started changing over to reserve mode set-up, but will keep as large panzer reserve until the 90 hexes front is in place. At that point its simply not needed other then 2 mobile Panzer Corps with the best elite Mech divisions to blunt any Russian pushs.

Basicly the standard set-up for German defense which can be seen in this thread and others.

tm.asp?m=3738744

Chaos Army is much smaller so its far more predictable (recon) and the front is allot shorter so defending will be much easyer.


ƒ¼


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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by chaos45 »

Appreciate the compliment of 95% solid play I can live with that lol.

My Red Army 2.0 is coming along nicely. I lost abit more infantry formations over 1942 that I would have liked but tis life as the Soviets. However even with those losses I held you further forward than I thought I would.

As to bait- you encircled 2 Guard Cav Corps and 1 tank Corps- the guard cav corps are worth far more than that crappy tank corps...so yes I had to break them out. An I did twice the second time I was contemplating further offensive action but decided to play it safe.

My guess is your manpower reserves are increasing because you disbanded most of the luftwaffe several turns ago.

As to routs....again just part of playing Soviets really....If I dont leave back up lines in place you breakthrough and encircle, if I leave backup lines in place a unit or units in the first line will almost always rout as 90% of soviet units cant retreat more than 1 space without routing. Is frustrating watching German units run through 2-3 hexes of retreat without routing........I guess at least it should be causing more losses/distruption/fatigue tho.

Normally not big on letting units get beat up/losing units....but in this game its just something you have to accept and realize that except for certain key units most soviet units are just expendable and you can make more.

Also not sure where your getting the I have a smaller army comment from...I looked at your reports on Smokindave my army is several 100k larger than his at this point and im holding much shorter lines....and from looking at the screens I have much stronger offensive forces than he did. Also pretty sure I have inflicted heavier losses on your forces overall so you have a slightly smaller force in our game than you had at this point against Dave. An key point is Im holding lines much closer to Berlin still in the winter of 1942....and now I have artillery divisions and soon to be lots and lots of rifle corps.
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Appreciate the compliment of 95% solid play I can live with that lol.


That's better then me.

Dave had a big disaster late in 42.

Counter wise + most people have 450 AP + allot more divisions in the bank for Jan 43, so they can merge units to flip into Corp ect ect.

I am guessing you been building 100's of sapper and other SU units instead of divisions.

The different way of doing things I generally talk about aka small Army/paper thin lines.
They are strong but thin other then where ever your mobile Front is parked.
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Appreciate the compliment of 95% solid play I can live with that lol.

My Red Army 2.0 is coming along nicely. I lost abit more infantry formations over 1942 that I would have liked but tis life as the Soviets. However even with those losses I held you further forward than I thought I would.

As to bait- you encircled 2 Guard Cav Corps and 1 tank Corps- the guard cav corps are worth far more than that crappy tank corps...so yes I had to break them out. An I did twice the second time I was contemplating further offensive action but decided to play it safe.

My guess is your manpower reserves are increasing because you disbanded most of the luftwaffe several turns ago.

As to routs....again just part of playing Soviets really....If I dont leave back up lines in place you breakthrough and encircle, if I leave backup lines in place a unit or units in the first line will almost always rout as 90% of soviet units cant retreat more than 1 space without routing. Is frustrating watching German units run through 2-3 hexes of retreat without routing........I guess at least it should be causing more losses/distruption/fatigue tho.

Normally not big on letting units get beat up/losing units....but
in this game its just something you have to accept and realize that except for certain key units most soviet units are just expendable
and you can make more.

Also not sure where your getting the I have a smaller army comment from...
I looked at your reports on Smokindave my army is several 100k larger than his at this point and im holding
much shorter lines....and from looking at the screens I have much stronger offensive forces than he did.
Also pretty sure I have inflicted heavier losses on your forces overall so you have a slightly smaller force
in our game than you had at this point against Dave. An key point is Im holding lines much closer to Berlin
still in the winter of 1942....and now I have artillery divisions and soon to be lots and lots of rifle corps.

As far as long lines go and front being closer to Berlin ect

My lines held until Feb 1944 vs Dave when I started trading space for time.

OR

Hex to Berlin turn ratio.

I was able to hold the lines where I wanted to and trade space for time until I started
the general across the front withdrawal with a large positive hex to turn ratio.

The key to this game as to any other 1943+ game, when can Russia force Germany to start trading space for time or pocket some units?

My job in 43 is to hold the lines and inflict as many loses as I can without letting you pocket any units.

Once the 2 turn per hex retreat starts and ends near 41 start line in Dec 44 pocketing units will be very
hard and you be simply following Germany west.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by chaos45 »

Going to be interesting as the Panzer force will still be potent all through 1943 and the SS panzer units + GD are still very good units even in 1944.

I didnt think the Blob soviet strategy was a good one as all it does is trade more and more troops for time/space and it doesnt allow Soviet mobile forces to have time to train and gain guard status early. I gambled with less infantry to try and build a more mobile/experienced Soviet assault force of Tank/Mech/Cav corps. At this point I now have over 50 Corps between the 3 types all with 3 SUs ea. Also all the infantry corps I have built have 3 SUs. [8D]

To be honest one of the main things that has held back my effective use of those forces was lack of Army/Shock Army/Tank Army HQs. As I have enough moderately competent skill 6 leaders to put in key positions but armies cost 25 AP each to build. Not getting a single tank army for free means to build enough tank armies to control everything in my mobile front took a ton of AP and slowed down building effective forces due to command/control. Tank armies also only getting 15 command points is very restrictive means only 3 corps and some artillery per tank army at 25 AP a pop.

You can noticed how much more effective my mobile forces are when directly commanded by shock army/tank Army HQs instead of direct to front. Going into 1943 I will have enough armies to actually command all those tanks giving me 2 command checks in the future instead of just 1 I have had from the front for alot of the fighting so far. Also my tank corps ToE has changed slightly already this winter and im noticing a slight increase in CV for full strength tank corps as the crappy T60s are removed and more T34s added.
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by Peltonx »

should be interesting for sure.

I am going to miss the T-60's for sure.
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by charlie0311 »

Hi guys,

C, coulda had close 100xxx by winter, 20 cav, 18 tk, the rest inf(lots of gds). Two mega fronts, V. and SWern, 2 shock xxxx and 3 tk xxxx each. Then front-line fronts with the inf. A double/double hammer. Can attack in two sectors with two fronts combined.

CP for Tk xxxx goes up (20 like the shock, not fully su re) when the tk xx xx makes Gds.

"close" to 100 xxx, 16 rxxx per front-line front (32)

so 20+18+32 = 62 , have ap for more, have proof(saves).
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by chaos45 »

Well yes coulda providing I wasnt losing armies to combat/encirclement. Also do you have 3 SUs per corps?

Another thing, why build infantry Corps before 1943? at 20 AP each mise well wait until 1943 when they drop to 10 AP each and use AP to get your mechanized forces going and artillery divisions/BDEs.

Also I already have more than 20 CAV/18 Tank corps....dont want to give away exactly how many I have in operation....not to mention I have mech corps which take a fair amount of AP sink in total, 15 AP for 3x BDEs then 20 AP to form corps then another 6 AP for 3 SU regiments = 41 AP per mech Corps. Mech corps end result should be the strongest CV Soviet Corps.

When Jan 1943 hits provided I dont have a total brain fart and lose a bunch of Corps over the Winter I will have over 100 corps in operation.
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by charlie0311 »

Thx for response.

"If", this or that will never go away. My earlier posts describe forming 200/250 rbrdgs to absorb losses before summer '42. Sov OOB '42 threads.

'42 rxxx for the following reasons, they are the front line, tkxxx in the front get routed way too easy. The best ones will have cv around 20 (attack). Form them as you see fit. 32 min by fall for winter offensive, you can wait for '43 for many more.

6 tk xxxx. 2 tk xxx and one mech each. One tk bn, one sapper, one "TD" bn (76mm AT guns, you are sure to be attacked by the Pzs). Rxxx is one sapper, one tk bn, and an empty slot. I have plenty more in the Stravka piggy bank. Cav xxx with 2 tk bn and sapper.

Downside, this set up will be hurting for trucks, all the winter upgrades and winter supply requirements mean to continue maximum attacking into winter '43 will put you 50k or more truck deficit and about 80% of needed supply in units. Enough attacking in early winter to "show 'em who's boss", shift the strategic initiative in "fancy talk", and then no attacks, and let the truck pool build until summer. If you don't let your truck pool build it never will. Goes to about 5k/per wk with all the lend lease.
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by chaos45 »

Think your talking mid to late 1943 charlie even at full strength w/3 SU at full str and as guards I have no corps coming close to 20 CV. We are only up to Nov 1942 right now.
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by Peltonx »

Allot depends on who you were playing as Chaos stated.

Feel free to post SS Charlie on this thread.
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by chaos45 »

As to late 1942 disasters- doesnt get much bigger than the mess I was dealing with to the SE of Rostov lol. Your initial encirlcement had 250k of my men cut off. Think in total you ended up wiping out around 200k of my men as some managed to get out of the pocket via routs during the 3 turns I was able to keep opening it. Basically you bagged an entire front, my weakest front really but you still in effect destroyed it as an effective fighting force.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by charlie0311 »

AI game, so shows potential only.

Premium rxxx, formed from gxx, with premium leadership start at about cv 13/14. 20 after winter offensive.

Generic rxxx only about 10.
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by chaos45 »

Yes AI game will be completely different than vs a player. AI doesnt do well at pockets which is one of the only things that keeps the Soviet Army from growing massive.
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by Peltonx »

Turn 75 GHC Armaments: 5,000 +0,000 Manpower: 80,000 +20,000 VP: 226

Armament Pts. Destroyed = 51
Heavy Industry Destroyed = 19
Factories: T-34 -60 Vehicles -25 SU2-12
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp: 7
Divisions: 86
Brigades: 42
AP total: 1280

Stavka OOB: 7,584,000 +302,000
GHC OOB: 3,862,000 -26,000

Don south Stavka seems intent on wasting a few units over nothing, but GHC will take them.
2 Corp are taken out of action. If not for the last 3 mud turns GHC would have had another huge pocket.
German infantry divisions are upgrading so the manpower pool will grow and OOB shrink for a few turns.
28 new German divisions will arrive over the next 4 months with 3 withdrawing plus more minor allies to help dig.
So defenses should be allot stronger by summer.


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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by Peltonx »

The Don north 6 hexes are lost, but no real movement. Most hexes have 50+ CV with a 2nd line of reserve units and several areas have a 3rd row of FZ’s. GHC can shorten the lines to about 90 hexes, but for now they will stay extended for as long as possible.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by M60A3TTS »

Would you mind throwing up an OOB screenie?
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by chaos45 »

If I had gotten mud you would have been pocketed instead will be nice when they fix the weather issues to be what is written in the rule book lol.

I took a chance at pocketing 5 of your units but instead the weather stayed clear for two turns when it was supposedly 90% chance of mud. Is war you take chances sometimes they work others they don't.

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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Would you mind throwing up an OOB screenie?

I will start adding them unless chaos does on his AAR
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RE: Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-70

Post by chaos45 »

Will throw up an OOB screen in my AAR once I do the next turn. Just got Turn 80 from Pelton, but moved and waiting to get my home internet set back up before I can resume turns.
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