To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

The new Cold War turned hot wargame from On Target Simulations, now expanded with the Player's Edition! Choose the NATO or Soviet forces in one of many scenarios or two linked campaigns. No effort was spared to model modern warfare realistically, including armor, infantry, helicopters, air support, artillery, electronic warfare, chemical and nuclear weapons. An innovative new asynchronous turn order means that OODA loops and various effects on C3 are accurately modeled as never before.

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CapnDarwin
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To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by CapnDarwin »

Okay. The team is working crazy hard on a number of items right now both for a 2.0.10 update with some tweaks and, more importantly, Mad Russian's scenario tweaks and balances and also working code and sorting out new features for Southern Storm. We have this marketing type question for the Flashpoint Campaign's faithful.

What kind of DLC, if any, would be of interest to you if it was made available? Not worried about costing in this question, let's assume it's reasonable. [;)]

Thanks.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
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Mad Russian
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by Mad Russian »

There are actually FIVE projects that have some amount of traction being applied to them. So, this is a very important question for us.

Thanks for taking part in the poll.

Good Hunting.

MR
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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
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KEYSTONE0795
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by KEYSTONE0795 »

I voted for expansion packs. That seems the way to get the most "bang" for the buck.

Will the engine be the same across all eras - and only be differentiated by the map scale? (ie - 250M hexes for earlier periods and 500M hexes for contemporary periods).
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jack54
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by jack54 »

I also voted for expansion packs... IMHO even the same era is fine; I like the idea of new countries and areas ...

btw, I almost picked other: Some sort of strategic overlay; not sure how it would work whether 'branching campaign decisions' or some sort of strategic map similar to Achtung Panzer:Operation Star or maybe Pike and Shot campaigns.

This would open whole new can of worms though, so my pragmatic vote remains Expansion Packs.
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salazarus
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by salazarus »

ORIGINAL: jack54

btw, I almost picked other: Some sort of strategic overlay; not sure how it would work whether 'branching campaign decisions' or some sort of strategic map similar to Achtung Panzer:Operation Star or maybe Pike and Shot campaigns.

This would open whole new can of worms though, so my pragmatic vote remains Expansion Packs.

+1 Strategic map would be great.

I voted expansion packs. They usually offer best content to price ratio. And it is nice to get some new units to play with. I'm okay with stand alone games for different periods at some point, but I would like to see expansions for current game first.
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ivanov
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by ivanov »

Expansion packs. They are the best way to provide the community with new interesting stuff and the devs with extra cash for further projects [:D]
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CapnDarwin
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by CapnDarwin »

@Keystone, we are looking at what we need to do to have the single game engine deal with different eras. This hits both hex size and a number of models in the game engine.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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On Target Simulations LLC
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by pzgndr »

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin
@Keystone, we are looking at what we need to do to have the single game engine deal with different eras. This hits both hex size and a number of models in the game engine.

Yeah I don't see how you're going to get around having a different game engine for 250m hexes and WWII-era command & control. There are probably lots of good features that could apply to both, but trying to do it all with a single game will likely drive you guys nuts.

So I wouldn't mind seeing a separate WWII-era/pre-modern game at 250m to compliment the current modern game at 500m. Then there could be scenario design options for different C2 models, fire support models, etc., and maybe we could still see a mix & match of pre-modern and modern scenarios in each game.

Alternatively, you might want to consider another poll to see how many folks really want the 500m scale versus 250m scale or both. It might be that a new single game engine for 250m that does it all would be the way to go.
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CapnDarwin
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by CapnDarwin »

You hit it on the head. We may need to have a separate game/engine for the 250m hexes. We are looking right now at what we can do and what needs to change to support pre-cold war (ww2/korea) and modern (2000+) environments. Command and control is one area along with several combat related areas (arty and direct fire pen curves) that would need addressing. Plus some talk of a 1000m hex scale has been talked about.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
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ivanov
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by ivanov »

Sounds reasonable having two engines and two scales from WW2/Korea and modern warfare. The WW2 would need to be probably also more infantry oriented.
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DannyJim_slith
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by DannyJim_slith »

I'm really easy to please. More campaigns and battles would be fine by me. I'd like the world but I'd happily pay for the scenarios I get for free from Command Modern Air and Naval Ops. I would have no problem paying for similar for Red Storm.
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Hexagon
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by Hexagon »

For me "Expansion Packs. New countries, scenarios, and maps"

I dont like have multiple instalations of same game (a WWII title is a diferent game than a WWIII), specially when doing this you lose the new nations/maps in the editor... i prefer one instalation and be capable of use all you have in editor.

Other point is that using expansion packs you break less comunity because at least all guys have the same base game.

And of course is the money question... expansion packs could be cheaper reducing a little the things it can offer and you allways can sell packs of base game+add-on and release it with a discount for guys that have the base game X days before release.

In the end i prefer the old systems ala Steel Panthers or original CM but i doubt we return to that happy days where you pay 1 time for all.

PD: maybe as is now the game you can offer 2 titles to complete the WWIII in Europe (north front + Scandinavia and the South front with Italy and maybe Turkey/Greece as bonus) and to mantein interest in game "gift" small things like a small pack of scens with NATO minors if you have base game + 1 of the add-ons and if you have both an extra gift.
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76mm
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by 76mm »

I don't really understand the question...for instance, is Southern Storm going to be a new game, or a DLC? At some point your plan was that it would be a separate game. I'd love for Southern Storm to be a DLC for FC, however.

So what do you mean by DLC (vs new game)?
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CapnDarwin
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by CapnDarwin »

@76mm, Southern Storm is a new game in the sense that it is the next iteration of the game engine. Our plan is to provide a back compatibility to Red Storm for its nations and hopefully other items. Once Southern Storm and the 2.1 engine are in place we want to use expansions to add in Northern Storm and other countries and locations for the cold war system. We are also looking at a pair of Red Storm Battle Packs in the near term to expand the current games map and scenario library while we work on Southern Storm. We are also looking at what needs to be done to have the game engine work for pre-cold war period and also possible modern effort or larger scales (1km hexes for instance). The best of all worlds would be one game engine that can plug into any of those systems and then be support with various modules/expansions for different eras and locations.

So right now we are trying to see what you guys will think about those types of DLCs above to get an idea of how much content/work we need to do to make those happen in the future. I hope that helps to explain things.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC
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Hexagon
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by Hexagon »

Pure scen/campaign DLCs for me are not very interesting... unless they center in a nation that is not going to be added in the big add-ons... for example a tematic DLC center in ... lets see a polish armored division in the north area VS UK/WG troops (maybe with other units like airborne, naval troops...) or if you plan add Poland as a major nation in other add-on select one nation you dont plan add and center here the battle pack (italian troops in a soviet attack to Italy or a Yugoslavia campaign with Soviets VS Yugoslavia).

The problem with pure scens/campaigns is are a little "nude" and dont add value to the game out of scens, this is why i find that DLCs could center in add a minor nation with actions centered on it.
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by ivanov »

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

The problem with pure scens/campaigns is are a little "nude" and dont add value to the game out of scens, this is why i find that DLCs could center in add a minor nation with actions centered on it.

+1
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76mm
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin
The best of all worlds would be one game engine that can plug into any of those systems and then be support with various modules/expansions for different eras and locations.

Thanks, I agree that the above would be super-cool, but could live with different "games" for different eras. It would be irritating, though, if FC and Southern Storm and other games in the same era cannot be used together.

As many have pointed out, the FC era is under-gamed, so could use some love, although personally after the Southern and Northern games I'd lose a fair bit of interest other than perhaps mid-east--personally I'm not particularly interested in Bangladesh-India or China-Vietnam, etc.

World War II East Front is the big draw for me, but I hope you don't start with Kursk.
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by cbelva »

Just keep in mind that Southern Storm is going to be a new Game. Its foundation will be the Red Storm engine, but with all the changes going into it, it will be a new game. Rob and Jim have taken the lessons they have learned from Red Storm and are trying to incorporate them into Southern Storm. If they are successful with all they plan on doing, Southern Storm should be an amazing game. It may look quite a bit like Red Storm on the surface, but what is happening under the hood will be very different. Our goal is to make it backwards compatible. What I mean by that is if you own Red Storm you should be able to play them the scenarios in Southern Storm. But we will have to wait to see how successful Rob is in making that happen. But it is fairly high on our priority list. Our goal is to then use the Southern Storm engine as we go forward. Expanding it and adding new content and theaters. Time is the critical element in all this. Rob and Jim both have full time jobs and other responsibilities. Unfortunately they did not make enough money with Red Storm to retire and live the life of leisure in the Caribbean.
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DoubleDeuce
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by DoubleDeuce »

My vote is the Expansion Packs with the main interest of new countries (OOB's) and maps. I did vote Map Packs too, although that is probably redundant since the Expansion Packs cover that.
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RE: To DLC or not DLC, that is the question...

Post by MBot »

My main interest would be expansion packs with new countries, maps and campaigns. But I would also buy quality battle packs with only new maps and campaigns if they are reasonably priced.

For the expansions I could imagine themed packs following a high-low mix. Smaller addons that add few minor countries, maps and campaigns, and big addons with major new features. For example:
Small expansion packs:
-Benelux Storm: Belgium, Netherlands
-Neutral Storm I: Austria, Switzerland
-Italo Storm: Italy, Hungary
-Balkan Storm: Yugoslavia
-Neutral Storm II: Sweden, Finland

Major expansion packs:
-Jutland Storm: Denmark and Poland. Amphibious and airborne troops/features for Poland, East Germany and USSR.
-Arctic Storm: Norway. Amphibious and airborne troops/features for USA, GB, NL and USSR.
-Mediterranean Storm: Turkey, Greece and Bulgaria. Amphibious and airborne troops/features for USSR and USA.
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