TF Search by Seaplanes

[jcax101]

Stock Scenario 1 with current patch

So have been looking at the Detection chapter in the manual and though it has been there all along was surprised at the boost a recon aircraft can get when searching for a TF.

Now back to TF Search by Seaplanes subject. Is there a similar Nav Search formula (similar to 10.2) for Seaplanes or Bombers that fly Naval Search missions, or do Naval Search missions (regardless of aircraft type) do a check against the pilot's Nav Search skill (without any modifiers like in 10.2)?

New question:
Darwin came back with a 9/10 on its detection levels. For ships in port it said 18 then listed AMc, AMc, xAK, xAK, xAP, TK, SS, SS.

With a 9/10 the game mechanics lead me to believe the intel is pretty correct. My question is: With that level of detection is that the report of all the classes in port? So in other words Darwin only has AMc, xAK, xAP, TK and SS in port and no other classes?

Thanks again for all the answers.
Scott

[Alfred]

Recon aircraft do not get a boost when searching for a task force.  Section 10.2 of the manual only applies to Recon missions and they are only point to point missions.
 
All searching for Task Forces is covered by the Naval Search mission which is an area mission.  Section 10.1.1.1 of the manual deals with these missions irrespective of the type of plane assigned a Naval Search mission.  Note that the ASW mission is essentially a subset of the Naval Search mission as it focusses solely on sub task forces.
 
You should also read this thread on the impact of cameras.
 
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3587738&mpage=1&key=detection&#3589236
 
As to the Darwin 9/10 DL, that is a good reading but like everything in this game, randoms are potentially at play.  Whilst FOW is not totally removed, that DL indicates that Darwin port has merchantmen and subs.  Major combatant vessels are not anchored.
 
Alfred

[HansBolter]

Alfred,

I have been wondering about one aspect of the increase in DL one derives from the Recon mission.

It does state (IIRC) that TFs located by such missions do suffer the increased DL.

However, since it is restricted to a recon mission which is point to point it would seem to indicate the TFs in a port hex targeted by the recon mission would be the only time a TF suffers this DL increase.

If my interpretation is correct, then TFs in port hexes are very much more vulnerable to a heavy increase in DL from this process.

Am I correct?

I also understand this to apply only to recon type squadrons flying recon missions.

While I am not familiar with the Japanese seaplanes, the Allied seaplanes are not recon planes.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Alfred,

I have been wondering about one aspect of the increase in DL one derives from the Recon mission.

It does state (IIRC) that TFs located by such missions do suffer the increased DL.

However, since it is restricted to a recon mission which is point to point it would seem to indicate the TFs in a port hex targeted by the recon mission would be the only time a TF suffers this DL increase.

If my interpretation is correct, then TFs in port hexes are very much more vulnerable to a heavy increase in DL from this process.

Am I correct?

Like most things in this game, it is more nuanced than that. As newbies do read these posts, I'll try to bring out the nuances.

1. Technically, if flying a Recon mission, you aren't really spotting a TF per se. What you are really doing is spotting what is located at that fixed point. One picks a fixed point for the Recon mission to fly to. In reality that will be a base hex or if one has very strong grounds to consider that something might actually be in the countryside (perhaps hinted at by the non appearance of dots when the "5" key is pressed). The sea is just too big and one has too few recon assets to just pick a fixed sea hex for a Recon mission.

Putting some context into this means that when flying to the base, the DL of the base itself is guaranteed to increase (according to s.10.1.1.2 the increase may be 1 ,2 or 4) but it is only a possibility that any unit located there may have an increased DL as each unit is checked separately to see if spotted by the pilot (see s.10.2).

The difference in the possible DL increase is due to the different circumstances in which Recon missions are flown ie by dedicated recon type aircraft (possible 4), or by non dedicated recon type aircraft (possible 2). The other means of gaining recon is a by product of running a bombing mission (such as Airfield Attack or Port Attack or Ground Attack mission) when the post action camera shot to see the result results in a DL increase of 1. All of course subject to the pilot passing his recon skill check.

2. With a Naval Search mission, which is an area mission, there are two different actions which can ensue, unlike a Recon mission which can have only one action ensuing. The Recon mission can only spot whereas the Naval Search can spot and bomb in the same fly past. Unlike the Recon mission where the DL increase is subject to die rolls, the Naval Search mission has guaranteed DL increases if the actions occur.

To put this in simple terms.

If you fly a Recon mission (using a dedicated recon type aircraft) to an enemy port, you are guaranteed to increase the DL of the base by 4. You might get a DL increase on a TF but this is subject to separate die rolls for each enemy unit (LCU, TF and so on) where the pilot recon skill level is relevant. If instead you fly a Naval Search mission and you spot a TF (the pilot naval search skill is important), whether at the port or on the high seas you are guaranteed a DL increase of 1 and if the search plane also drops a bomb in the same flyover, an additional DL increase of 2. these guarantees are irrespective of type of aircraft employed

So which do you think is better? A possible 4 increase (from Recon but only if flying a dedicated recon type aircraft and the die rolls are passed) or a guaranteed 1-3 increase (from Naval Search). Then to further complicate the issue is the possible additional benefit derived from cameras. Personally I don't believe that Recon missions pose the greater threat to TFs and I certainly don't think they have an advantage vis a vis enemy TFs. If I want to locate enemy TFs I will always rely upon using the Naval Search mission rather than the Recon mission.


Yes, if absolutely everything turns out perfectly, a single flyover of a Recon mission can generate the highest DL of a TF located at a port. This however is the exception rather than the norm. Many more assets are available to fly Naval Search missions and fewer die rolls are involved with greater certainty attached to DL increases.

Alfred

[dave sindel]

Thanks Alfred for that clear and concise explanation. Most helpful.

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: jcax101

With a 9/10 the game mechanics lead me to believe the intel is pretty correct. My question is: With that level of detection is that the report of all the classes in port? So in other words Darwin only has AMc, xAK, xAP, TK and SS in port and no other classes?

Thanks again for all the answers.
Scott

Like Alfred, I would say that this means he just has small fry and merchants there (along with a few subs), however, don't always trust these. Recently I bombed a port that the intel said had "DD,DD,DD,DD,E,E,E" or something like that. Bombers found 2 BBs and 3 CVEs (along with 4 Es). It is possible that they were disbanded that day into the port, but given the circumstances, I seriously doubt it. When I ordered the bombing, I was suspecting something more than just escorts.