Level Bombers and ports

[tiredoftryingnames]

Anyone know of historical instances where large level bombers attacked a port with torpedoes? The school of thought so far in the debate is that level bombers needed a long approach run and dropped from higher altitudes than smaller torpedo bombers. So this would have made them more ineffective against ships in ports due to the shallow water and small confines.

But it's just a theory until we find something that says yes or no it didn't happen. Our research has turned up zero evidence. We have found where level bombers have attacked with torpedoes at sea, but that we knew. Port attacks seem to have been with bombs from high altitude. If you have an instance please share it so we can look into that battle. Mainly we're talking Betty's and aircraft like that. Not Kates, Devastators or Avengers.

Thanks

[Mr.Frag]

UV switches Betty/Nell/etc to bombs when you give them a land mission like port/airfield/ground attack. They only carry a torpedo loadout on naval missions.

[tiredoftryingnames]

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
UV switches Betty/Nell/etc to bombs when you give them a land mission like port/airfield/ground attack. They only carry a torpedo loadout on naval missions.

What we're trying to find out is if historically they operated torpedoes in ports from level bombers. Basically confirming what the rule should be for loadouts for certain missions.

[JohnK]

I'm fairly certain the only in-port torpedo attacks of WWII were Swordfish at Taranto and Kates at Pearl Harbor; with the POSSIBLE exception of..

The raids on Truk; don't know if any of the ships in Truk Lagoon were torpedoed.

I don't believe any Torps were used in the harbor attacks at Rabaul...

As the war wore on everyone used torpedo netting in "ports" (we're talking actual, established ports, not "anchorages" I presume; once you're below size 3 in UV you're really not talking about an ACTUAL port, but an anchorage.)

But, in any event, what attacks there were were done by smaller torpedo bombers; none of the port attacks were Bettys, Ju-88s, etc.

[Howard Mitchell]

The below is from 'German Capital Ships of World War Two' by M. J. Whitley, ISBN 0-85368-970-9, an excellent book. Companion volumes cover cruisers, destroyers and smaller vessels. It describes an attack on the Gneisenau in port at Brest in April 1941:

The resources of Coastal Command were not great, as far
as torpedo attacks were concerned, at that moment; only No.
22 Squadron was available and its Beauforts were at St Eval
in Cornwall. Nine aircraft were on line, with only six crews
available. There were many problems facing the attacking
force, flak batteries ashore and on the ships, net defences, the
restricted room for manoeuvre and the limited zone for drop-
ping the torpedoes. Nevertheless, an attack was ordered for
the pre-dawn of 6 April. Three Beauforts were armed with
parachute mines to blow up any torpedo nets, while the other
three were to carry torpedoes. In the event, only four aircraft
took off, the torpedo bombers and one of the mine-laden air-
craft. Of these, only X/22 managed to get in an attack, which
resulted in a torpedo hit, the loss of the aircraft (N1016) and
the award of a posthumous VC for its captain, Flying Officer
Campbell.

The aircraft was spotted by Gniesenau at the last moment,
low down and approaching from the south over the mole.
Despite the heavy flak barrage, the Beaufort successfully
launched its torpedo before being shot down into the har-
bour. The torpedo struck Gneisenau on the starboard side,
compartments IV and V, causing considerable damage and
flooding. The outer hull and 'Wallgang' bulkhead in this re-
gion were virtually destroyed and the torpedo bulkhead from
frame 51 to 62 badly distorted, its upper edge being ripped
away from the armoured deck. Bulkhead 62 was damaged, as
was the longitudinal bulkhead between No. 1 turbine room
and the starboard shaft tunnel. The starboard shaft and bear-
ings were also displaced. Water and oil fuel flooded through
the ruptured plating and bulkheads, rapidly filling up the
after flak T/S, its associated switch and amplifier rooms.
Flooding was also extensive in Nos. 1 and 3 turbine rooms,
No. 1 generator room and the lower rooms of 'C' turret struc-
Ture.

[bradfordkay]

Yeah, that is one reason why the RAAF Torbeau squadrons are my favorite PM units, especially since v2.30 was released. They are the allies only equivalent of the Betty in naval attacks.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Originally posted by bradfordkay
Yeah, that is one reason why the RAAF Torbeau squadrons are my favorite PM units, especially since v2.30 was released. They are the allies only equivalent of the Betty in naval attacks.

So you mean to say they fall apart at the first sight of enemy fire, manage to get one torpedo hit in 20+ attacks on un-CAPPped AP conwoy, die in dozens, and have their morale reset to 10 after ANY and EVERY mission?

<sarcasm off>

Bettys and Nells are the downfall of the Japan fleet air arm. I hate them more with each pasing day.

Oleg (your favorite Japanese whiner

[Mr.Frag]

So you mean to say they fall apart at the first sight of enemy fire, manage to get one torpedo hit in 20+ attacks on un-CAPPped AP conwoy, die in dozens, and have their morale reset to 10 after ANY and EVERY mission?

You must be playing Japan, when playing the Allied, these are the same planes that fly through 60+ F4F's and somehow manage to fly over the CA/DD escorts, ducking down just after clearing the masts and lining up to score MANY torpedo hits on my CV's who are completely surrounded by other ships that are attempting to eat the torpedo instead of letting the CV's get hit.

[Snigbert]

Is there a difference between submarine nets and torpedo nets?
I recall reading in the sub attack on Scapa Flow the German sub commander being concerned with sub nets, and I believe Pearl Harbor also had them. I wonder if the idea was to impede subs from getting into the harbor and therefore, sub/torpedo nets would not do much good against a plane carrying a torpedo.

[denisonh]

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
You must be playing Japan, when playing the Allied, these are the same planes that fly through 60+ F4F's and somehow manage to fly over the CA/DD escorts, ducking down just after clearing the masts and lining up to score MANY torpedo hits on my CV's who are completely surrounded by other ships that are attempting to eat the torpedo instead of letting the CV's get hit.

Ditto