Loss of capital ships

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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patrickl
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Loss of capital ships

Post by patrickl »

How do you guys cope with that? I can't take it well. Feel like starting over and hope to do better.[:@]
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Dante Fierro
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by Dante Fierro »

ORIGINAL: patrickl

How do you guys cope with that? I can't take it well. Feel like starting over and hope to do better.[:@]

Heavy drinking. Maybe I'll watch Frozen again. Get to sleep late.

Then the sun rises next morning. And I load up WitP for my next turn.

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geofflambert
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by geofflambert »

ORIGINAL: patrickl

How do you guys cope with that? I can't take it well. Feel like starting over and hope to do better.[:@]

It's actually quite simple, put them in lower case. If they're in italics or boldface, well, you know what to do.

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dr.hal
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by dr.hal »

ORIGINAL: Dante Fierro


Then the sunrises next morning. And I load up WitP for my next turn.


There is something to what Dante says.... it hurts deeply to see your electronic sailors take a hit and dive into Davy Jones' Locker, but if you wait a day and then have a look, it is amazing how it all comes into perspective. As the song says, "the beat goes on". Hal
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by jwolf »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


It's actually quite simple, put them in lower case. If they're in italics or boldface, well, you know what to do.

[:)][:)]
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geofflambert
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by geofflambert »

So I have to settle for a couple of smileys. I've always been underappreciated. [:(]

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TOMLABEL
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by TOMLABEL »

I feel your pain often. I really get heated when that happens.....so I turn that emotion into an extreme motivation to win the next round. And the next one. And the next one after that. I don't even consider starting over. I take it more as a challenge.

More like - "I got myself into this mess one step at a time, so I will get myself out of it the same way."

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Numdydar
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by Numdydar »

Well as Japan, you get used to losing capital ships (plus a lot of others) over the course of the war. Usually all of them [:(]

So complaining about losing some capital ships as the Allies just really seems kind of AFB whining to me [:)]
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JeffroK
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by JeffroK »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

So I have to settle for a couple of smileys. I've always been underappreciated. [:(]
I didnt think you under-appreciated yourself.

[:'(]
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HansBolter
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Well as Japan, you get used to losing capital ships (plus a lot of others) over the course of the war. Usually all of them [:(]

So complaining about losing some capital ships as the Allies just really seems kind of AFB whining to me [:)]

Seeing an overpowered Japan strike in 1945 with an intact KB and sink 30+ CVEs in one battle clearly exposes this for the tripe and cheap shot that it truly is.

The OP would do well to ignore this kind of unwarranted attack.
Hans

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Feltan
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by Feltan »

ORIGINAL: patrickl

How do you guys cope with that? I can't take it well. Feel like starting over and hope to do better.[:@]

If you play the game long enough, the fact is you will have several starts and you will do better next time.

However, every game is a learning experience -- even when you are getting your ass handed to you in a bag. Maybe especially when you are losing badly.

If you place yourself in the role of the Allied or Japanese supreme leader, the simple fact is you do not allow yourself the option of not continuing on. IRL, they had no choice .... and neither do you if you want the full experience.

Regards,
Feltan
Numdydar
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by Numdydar »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Well as Japan, you get used to losing capital ships (plus a lot of others) over the course of the war. Usually all of them [:(]

So complaining about losing some capital ships as the Allies just really seems kind of AFB whining to me [:)]

Seeing an overpowered Japan strike in 1945 with an intact KB and sink 30+ CVEs in one battle clearly exposes this for the tripe and cheap shot that it truly is.

The OP would do well to ignore this kind of unwarranted attack.

Well that seems more of a statement of that particular Allied player play style versus a 'normal' result of Allied play [:)]

Plus are CVEs even considered capital ships? I would argue that they should not be consider in that group but would be willing to be convinced otherwise.

Numdydar
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by Numdydar »

ORIGINAL: Feltan

ORIGINAL: patrickl

How do you guys cope with that? I can't take it well. Feel like starting over and hope to do better.[:@]

If you play the game long enough, the fact is you will have several starts and you will do better next time.

However, every game is a learning experience -- even when you are getting your ass handed to you in a bag. Maybe especially when you are losing badly.

If you place yourself in the role of the Allied or Japanese supreme leader, the simple fact is you do not allow yourself the option of not continuing on. IRL, they had no choice .... and neither do you if you want the full experience.

Regards,
Feltan

+1

I totally agree that going to the end as Japan is hard but it is totally worth it as you really get a much better understanding of what Japan was facing in the real war. The whole time I was playing in '44 I kept asking myself 'why did these people keep fighting'? I understand that their national pride/culture kept them going, but still ...

So both side really do short change themselves in PBEM games for not going the distance.

Of course I will freely admit, after playing Japan to the bitter end in a PBEM game, it is unlikely I would ever do it again simply because once was enough [:(]
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HansBolter
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Well as Japan, you get used to losing capital ships (plus a lot of others) over the course of the war. Usually all of them [:(]

So complaining about losing some capital ships as the Allies just really seems kind of AFB whining to me [:)]

Seeing an overpowered Japan strike in 1945 with an intact KB and sink 30+ CVEs in one battle clearly exposes this for the tripe and cheap shot that it truly is.

The OP would do well to ignore this kind of unwarranted attack.

Well that seems more of a statement of that particular Allied player play style versus a 'normal' result of Allied play [:)]

Plus are CVEs even considered capital ships? I would argue that they should not be consider in that group but would be willing to be convinced otherwise.



Point taken regarding CVE not being capital ships.

However, your response misses the point of the "fully intact KB in '45" undercutting the claim that Japanese players lose all their capital ships over the course of the game.

Just thought your post was a bit extreme.
Hans

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HansBolter
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

ORIGINAL: Feltan

ORIGINAL: patrickl

How do you guys cope with that? I can't take it well. Feel like starting over and hope to do better.[:@]

If you play the game long enough, the fact is you will have several starts and you will do better next time.

However, every game is a learning experience -- even when you are getting your ass handed to you in a bag. Maybe especially when you are losing badly.

If you place yourself in the role of the Allied or Japanese supreme leader, the simple fact is you do not allow yourself the option of not continuing on. IRL, they had no choice .... and neither do you if you want the full experience.

Regards,
Feltan

+1

I totally agree that going to the end as Japan is hard but it is totally worth it as you really get a much better understanding of what Japan was facing in the real war. The whole time I was playing in '44 I kept asking myself 'why did these people keep fighting'? I understand that their national pride/culture kept them going, but still ...

So both side really do short change themselves in PBEM games for not going the distance.

Of course I will freely admit, after playing Japan to the bitter end in a PBEM game, it is unlikely I would ever do it again simply because once was enough [:(]


Not trying to pick on you, but think about the fact that every Allied player has to play through the "bitter beginning" just to get to the "good times" while the Japanese players enjoy the "good times" right out of the starting gate and many times quit once the good times are over denying the Allied player his chance at the "good times".

Thinking about it that way might help soften your sometimes harsh stance toward AFBs.[:)]
Hans

Numdydar
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by Numdydar »

Harsh? Against AFBs? Certainly not me [:D]

I totally agree about JFB quitting in '43 or as soon as their 'master' plan get derailed. I also totally understand why they would want to after being exposed to the full effect of the Allied forces in '44/45 first hand. Japan in real life should have given up at least after Okinawa if not before. Unfortunately since most JFBs have a good idea of what is coming down the road for them in the end, it is far easier to give up versus continue on.

Also this is behavior is typical in most strategic WWII games, not just in AE. Since the Allies were so totally unprepared for WWII, the Axis can pretty much have all the 'fun' until about '43. Unfortunately for us gamers 70+ years later, the real life combatants were not really interested in a fair and equal struggle that would make a good game later on [:D]

As far as the intact KB goes. I kept the majority of my CVs alive until mid '44 with advanced AC in my PBEM. I was moving them from Osaka to Nagasaki as I had wanted them to try and protect the few convoys between China and the home is. The Allies of course spotted this move and they had 3 CV fleets of four CVs each react 12 hexes to get within air range. Needless to say my CVs were no more [:(]. I did actually get through all the CAP and AA fire and damaged some Allied ships, but not a single one was damaged enough to have to stay behind. The air strikes included all my land based air as well as the CV air. Of course these were full CVs not CVEs either. Did not see a single one of those.

So having an intact KB is not as useful as you may think at that stage of the war. When you see 200 advanced CV fighters escorting and then another 200 left behind for CAP you easily see how far the scales have been tipped away for your side [:@]

The only up side is my CV squadrons could land at Nagasaki. Silver lining and all of that nonsense [:)]
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Point taken regarding CVE not being capital ships.

It's debatable. The term evolved from the 1680s when it was first used. Once guns ceased to be the main armament for major fleet units I'm not sure the term was that relevant. Today, an Ohio-class submarine is certainly a "capital" ship, but does it matter?

A CVE with the fighters pulled and TBs loaded in their place had about the striking power of a CVL. Was a CVL a capital ship? In the right circumstances it had more striking power by far than a BB, and was able to apply offensive power both against ships and land targets far inland of the BB's maximum range.

On survivability a CVE fails the test versus a BB or CA. At least if the enemy finds and engages the CVE. But the classic definition of the term wasn't about defense.
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leehunt27@bloomberg.net
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by leehunt27@bloomberg.net »

I thought I'd be miserable playing as the Japanese in 1944- but its a fun challenge. How can you frustrate the monster? How can you make it flail about angrily and make mistakes and slow it down? Sure, you are going to get overwhelmed as the Japanese, but its satisfying to throw the Allies off track and off schedule. If you think about it, playing as the Allies is actually VERY HARD because they have to achieve incredible military and logistical goals. The US made 78 successful amphibious landings in the Pacific! 78 out of 78. How many PBEM players have achieved that? Very few... Its a real challenge to beat Japan by the end of 1944, which really should be the Allied target.



CVE's are floating glass cannons. Some firepower, but they shatter and sink so easily...
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Lecivius
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by Lecivius »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Today, an Ohio-class submarine is certainly a "capital" ship, but does it matter?

It can't be a capital ship. It's a boat!












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HansBolter
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RE: Loss of capital ships

Post by HansBolter »

Always wondered why they called things that large boats.

Same is true for the mini-destroyers called Torpedo Boats (not to be confused with Patrol Torpedo Boats).

Maybe Moose or one of the other submariners can provide an answer on why subs are called boats and not ships.
Hans

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