A Glorious Way to Die: John 3rd vs. NY59Giants BTS: Lite

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vicberg
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RE: Operation Man Trap Concludes

Post by vicberg »

No it's not gamey at all. The off map boxes are gamey (a game mechanism). Truth is nothing but open sea until you get to ice in that part of the world.

He obviously wasn't expecting this from you. Had a lot of assets "protected" in south OZ.
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John 3rd
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VEGAS!

Post by John 3rd »

It is ohhhh dark hundred here and we're off to Lost Wages. Will be back on Sunday.

Have a good week all!
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Canoerebel
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RE: VEGAS!

Post by Canoerebel »

Man, John, you whacked Michael good. I know he's smarting big time. Its tough to get caught off guard, get surprised, get trapped in no-man's-land, and then take some very public and painful whippings. Ouch! (I suppose nearly every Allied player has experienced this - most of us multiple times - in 1942.)

Michael was not trapped against the map's edge, so by any measure what you did wasn't gamey. For any ship or TF near the map's edge, he could simply set the destination as Capetown and the ship/TF would exit the map's edge (and get the added benefit of no longer using fuel, if my memory is correct).

As for gamey, years ago I gave that alot of thought and developed a two- or three-part test that satisfied my conscience on the matter. I think the first part was "whether it could have been done in the real war?" I know the most important part of the test was "is there a reasonable counter by my opponent?"

Thus, if I was doing something questionable or impossible or "stretching the game engine," was there a reasonable way for my opponent to counter the tactic? If so, it fell within my idea of "fair play."

To my way of thinking, even if Michael couldn't exit map's edge, your tactics still weren't gamey. Michael knew the edge was there and it was therefore incumbent upon him to deploy his forces in such a way that he guarded against surprise and had a viable exit strategy.

Have fun, you Rascally Bedeviler of Allied Players Near and Far, Good and Bad, Green and Experienced!
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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John 3rd
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VEGAS!

Post by John 3rd »

Hey Dan! Appreciate the thinking and comments a bunch.

We just back from Lost Wages. Did not win a Zillion $$$. Didn't lose everything either. I consider that to be victory when it comes to Vegas.

Michael just sent the turn and it is time to back into the war...
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John 3rd
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Operation Fizzbin

Post by John 3rd »

Combat Report
May 20, 1942
Operation Fizzbin


Very calm day to report. We'll go regional and do updates:

North Pacific
Cold Bay
Amphibs unload without interference. LOTS of SS up here but nothing else. All troops unloaded and we bombard. Things look very good. Lots of support units with a single Regiment providing defense. Will wait two days so we can do a BB Bombardment then we'll drop Paratroopers and launch our first attack. Barring surprises we are in pretty good shape here.

SS Ops
All seven ML SS dropped mines west of Prince Rupert and we were immediately rewarded with an explosion. NICE! Have a good number of SS operating here looking for targets.

Central Pacific
Hawaii
All bases are fully repaired and PH's Repair Yard is now operational. Biggest news here is the loading of two Infantry Divisions, 2 Engineering Regiments and 3 Artillery units for Tabiteau. These troops will invade Nadi during late-June.

South Pacific
Pago Pago
Three CVE about to arrive at PP. They have nearly 70 planes and will soon be augmented by Hiyo and Junyo. Need two days for a convoy to arrive then we'll take a stab at Tahiti.

Australia
KB
The CVs move slowly west waiting for AOs to arrive with a partial load of 11,000 fuel. This should easily fill us enough to get home.

Spot a TF containing at least one crippled CV. It approaching Busselton/Perth. As mentioned earlier there are 7 SS stalking this target. Have two small STF opf 3 DD each trying to make an intercept as well. If interested, KB will be close enough to throw a strike tomorrow. This cripple is in BAD shape. It only moved a single hex from yesterday to today.

Carnavon
Fast TF approaching this target and carries the bulk of an Infantry Brigade. Should serve to keep Michael nervous.

Burma
Good shape. Am waiting on a two ID reinforcement before getting operations moving in this area.

China
SUCKS! Nothing really happening here.

Engineering (5-16---5/20)
Akutan AF-3 5-16
Soerabaja AF-5 5-17
Lahaina AF-7 5-18
Nagasaki AF-7 5-19
Port Blair AF-2 5-19
Kanhsien AF-2 5-19
Umnak AF-3 5-20

Umnak and Akutan going to Lvl-3 Helps BUNCHES!



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John 3rd
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Operation Man Trap

Post by John 3rd »

Combat Report
May 21, 1942
Operation Man Trap


As stated in previous postings, a group of Allied cripples have been watched moving very slowly towards Perth or Albany. Two STF of 3 TT each and the KB moved in to try and nab whatever was present. The morning search on May 21st spots a two ship TF trying to reach Port. A strike of 68 Zero, 24 Val, and 12 Kate launch to attack it. They find CV Illustrious and CA Astoria. Both cripples are sunk with the CV getting 3 Bombs and a TT while the cruiser gets 4 Bombs. CONCLUSIVELY scratch another flattop!

DEFINITE KILLS: CV Illustrious, CV Formidable, CVL Hermes, CLV Jacksonville, CLV Charlotte, CAV Wellington, and CAV Melbourne. Two CV, 1 CVL, and 4 Flying Deck Cruisers.

POSSIBLE KILLS: CV Lexington

I will go through my notes to tally other sinkings in the massed, long-term raid. What a success!

Other News:

North Pacific
Finish unloading at Cold Bay. Lose two, perhaps, three AKs to CD. We'll launch our first assault on this target in two days.

Australia
Fenton is taken and we are now driving on Katherine.


That is about it...

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Sangeli
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RE: Operation Man Trap

Post by Sangeli »

Wow! I can't believe you found Michael's CVs off of Western OZ again like that! Michael is REALLY being sloppy here. Given how vast your empire is going to be with deep SoPac moves, it was going to be vulnerable to any decent sized Allied CV group. Instead Michael manages to lose about half his CV strength for no gain.

Given your recent successes, I think you can start thinking more seriously about some ambitious plans for late 42. I really think making a play for OZ could be a good idea after you secure the rest of the SoPac. Especially if you can make some progress in China to free up some IJA units. These are the sorts of games where it pays to be aggressive through the end of 42. Just look at the CF vs Mundy game.
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John 3rd
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RE: Operation Man Trap

Post by John 3rd »

My naturally aggressive instincts say the same thing: GO FOR IT!

Am trying to mute those...

It would appear that the British Navy is fully out of the picture when it comes to CV power; however, the American Fleet (minus two CLV and a damaged Saratoga--PERHAPS a damaged/sunk Lexington--is still out there and a viable threat.

Hiyo is about complete (15 Days).

I've the full Carrier Strength of Japan intact and operational.

Need to replenish and pick-up a crap load of new airframes to replace losses. Additional issue is about to occur when my upgrades are set to begin. Most of the original six CVs upgrade in June or July. Have some BBs up for upgrade already. Am going to have to factor that into the equation. Can do upgrades at Singers or go all the way home.

Think the CVs head for Soerabaja and Singapore. Will reorganize at Soerabaja and make some command decisions.

We're about to head into an operational pause once I capture Carnavon.

Fall 1942 Options Sangeli?

1. The logical is Australia. Don't need the Fleet commitment for that. Could have three axis of attack: Carnavon going South--Tennant Creek going South or East, and Portland Roads going South. We could easily have 8-10 ID in combat within 6-8 weeks. Really need to think on that some.

2. NORPAC is done once I Cold bay and Dutch Harbor. Not much point pushing east from there.

3. SOPAC has some value in taking Nadi--Suva and widening the salient heading south there. Would also serve to help a move on Australia.

4. Burma is a dead letter. Will hold the coast and dig-in throughout the country.

5. China provides great fear for me. Michael has blunted my several attempts to get something going. Am going to try and go after Kunming from the south and Burma. We'll see if that stretches Michael and provides an opportunity elsewhere.


I have a couple of new SNLF Assault Brigades coming as well as a crapton of new Atoll Defense Units coming in. They will alll deploy through the important points of the Pacific to serve as garrison and tripwires to slow an Allied advance down to create opportunities...
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BattleMoose
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RE: Operation Man Trap

Post by BattleMoose »

I would like to see you go for Australia and the seas are unquestionably yours but do you have enough LCUs? My hunch is no, and almost feel that excess LCUs might be best used in China. The real big question is how many LCUs michael has managed to smuggle into Aus, you might be able to get it on the cheap and destroy whats there. From your scouting it looks like a lot of them are in the Perth area, Sydney and Brisbane might be vulnerable.
vicberg
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RE: Operation Man Trap

Post by vicberg »

Between China and OZ, I'd say China. IMO, China is really the only game in town for Japan. All other offensives (PH, SoPac, OZ) are for VP (which you don't care about), degradation of allied capability (which you've succeeded at) or for defense (Aluetians/SoPac).

Compare OZ (or India) to China. OZ can ultimately be cutoff by the Allies. Same with India since Burma doesn't provide good supply into India. China is it's own supply source. It's own fuel and oil source (in excess of need). Enables the Singapore to Fusan LOC (which some people think is gamey, but I don't since Japan launched a campaign for this exact purpose in 1944). Unfortunately for me, the fuel/oil/resources aren't flowing yet from Singers to Fusan and I'm trying to figure out why.

Success in China removes an entire flank (a massive one) and frees up divisions for Burma/Java/SoPac/Aleutians/Home Islands/Luzon/etc., compared to an attack in OZ or India, which will simply tie up LCUs.

I don't know if you've been following my AAR, but I shifted the 25th Army to take China. Yes that's something that could have been used elsewhere and I didn't take PH, but China will fall and I'm doing BTS! Once it falls, the crack 25th Army will move into Burma (the easiest early war Allied attack axis) and i'll start pulling crack divisions out of China for defense.

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Sangeli
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RE: Operation Man Trap

Post by Sangeli »

I don't think Australia is nearly as hard to hold as people claim, especially in this game. Australia is going to have a huge buffer zone to the east meaning the only defenses you really need are the garrisons. The garrison requirement isn't all that bad either. I think its about 1/2th what you need for India and it has more industry as well. Not to mention that the VPs for destroying Australian militia are the same as destroying US Marines. And the convoys are pretty easy to manage I think since Perth is fairly close to the DEI and obviously the Australian rail system is superb.

The trick for Australia I think is doing it with minimal units even if it means it takes longer to wrap up. I would not commit the 8-10 divisions for Australia. I would commit 4-5 divisions at first with the option of landing a few more in the second phase of the campaign. The first phase is to secure everything this side of the line of emergency reinforcements and the second phase is to secure the rest. That way you can change your mind and pull out without having gone all in like you suggest. The goal of course is to grind up the Australian units before having committed to taking the whole thing since its so hard to move them out of heavy urban terrain. If Michael sees only 2-3 divisions in NE OZ he may get the idea in his head that he can actually stop you and leave the big urban cities to defend a MLR. And that's when he becomes vulnerable.
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John 3rd
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RE: Operation Man Trap

Post by John 3rd »

There is an interesting thought in this discussion.

Michael KNOWS I HATE CHINA. Moving an army of 3-4 ID and support troops there to augment an offensive is actually a fairly interesting idea that would truly surprise him. Am ALWAYS thinking about PSYOPS!

Australia is takeable. I know Michael brought both Aussie IDs into India and NOT Kangarooland. Bet the Brit 18th is in India too...
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Cap Mandrake
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RE: Operation Man Trap

Post by Cap Mandrake »

What? "Operation Man Trap"?

I click on it expecting to see a discussion of a Doris Day movie and instead find Allied carriers becoming artificial reefs. False advertising I say!
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John 3rd
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RE: Operation Man Trap

Post by John 3rd »

Sorry about your PROFOUND disappointment Capt!

Next Operation to be named after a Star Trek Episode:

The Best of Both Worlds
Whom Gods Destroy
Devil in the Dark
Operation Annihilate
Darmok

We're looking for votes and/or nominations!
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Mike McCreery
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RE: Operation Man Trap

Post by Mike McCreery »

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Sorry about your PROFOUND disappointment Capt!

Next Operation to be named after a Star Trek Episode:

The Best of Both Worlds
Whom Gods Destroy
Devil in the Dark
Operation Annihilate
Darmok

We're looking for votes and/or nominations!

The trouble with tribbles....
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HansBolter
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RE: Operation Man Trap

Post by HansBolter »

What about City on the Edge of Forever?

Has very important implications for WWII.
Hans

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John 3rd
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Operation COTEOF

Post by John 3rd »

Thank You Hans. City on the Edge of Forever it is!

Sorry for no Postings. Life has been pretty busy as we prepare to get the boys off to school starting Monday. Working every day this week and that does not help my loving disposition...

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John 3rd
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Colorado Suffle

Post by John 3rd »

Combat Report
May 31, 1942
SS Lines off San Diego


It is dangerous for American ships to move SW out of San Diego. USS Saratoga and USS King's Mountain have both eaten single TTs from Japanese I-Boats. There are always 7-10 SS operating with at least 4 of them being Glen Boats. This day finds I-15 lurking...

Glens pick-up a massed set of convoys moving SW out of San Diego. Two American CVs are spotted as well as a whole BUNCH of warships and merchants. Looks like the Eastern American Death Star is moving south.

I-15 spots enemy ships approaching and dives. Twenty minutes later she raises her periscope and spots the USS Colorado sailing along at 1,200 Yds distance. A full salvo of Torps is launched and TWO strike the battleship's flank. Not enough to kill her but certainly enough damage to provide a companion in the yards with USS Saratoga.

NICE!

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John 3rd
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Operation Fizzbin

Post by John 3rd »

Combat Report
May 30, 1942
Operation Fizzbin


The Allied resistance on Cold Bay ends on May 30th. The troops are driven out of the hex and nearly 3,000 become casualties.

A Fast TF is put together to grab the .dot hex NW of Cold Bay so there is no retreat path left for the survivors. The Karafuto Brigade is dispatched NE to catch the enemy and then force them to surrender.

The SNLF Para Assault Brigade goes to rest mode. It will be picked up and taken back to Umnak. From Umnak it will be used to capture Nome and Bethel. Goal is to make Michael nervous that perhaps I am headed up in this direction...


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John 3rd
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SS Action

Post by John 3rd »

Combat Report
May 28-June 1, 1942
Australia


Michael is now trying to move his vulnerable shipping out of Esperance and Albany. My I-Boats have been having a pretty good set of days. Japanese boats have sunk an AM, PC, AK, and AKL with damage to four more ships. Should bag some more before they reach comparative safety in Melbourne.


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