Random Game Setup

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Tac2i
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Random Game Setup

Post by Tac2i »

I have found the following settings can lead to an enjoyable game versus 3 AI:

World Size: Large
Players: 4
World Type: Land
Map loop
Stone Age
Depleted Land (important)
Continent Size: Normal
Humidity: Normal
Climate: Full Range
Geological Age: Normal
1 Town Start: do not use

There are lots of combinations and I'm sure others can produce fun games but these settings are what I've been using lately. The 'Depleted Land" setting ensures that there is not an abundance of Raw or Oil. It will be critical to your war effort to rapidly upgrade what you have and capture more from the enemy. At least one AI regime will most likely declare war on you early. It is possible within a short period of turns all three AI will be at war with you. If that happens you are in for a major challenge early on. Ideal situation for you is that one AI declares war on another AI. That takes some pressure off as those two aren't likely to come after you for awhile. Regardless of the declaration of war situation, your first priority will be to stop the AI from advancing on you and then carry the war to them. The only tips that I will provide for the early war stage are as follows:

1) research MG II and upgrade all your MG units
2) research Anti-Tank guns and build some AT units (AI will quickly have armored cars)
3) research Armored Cars
4) build a tank and gun factory as soon as feasible

Have fun!
Tac2i (formerly webizen)
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henri51
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RE: Random Game Setup

Post by henri51 »

Except for researching early MGII and AT guns, in my new game (with TOE) I got my butt royally kicked by the single AI on a medium random map. My units early on are mostly infantry supported with a few MGs, mortars and SMGs. The AI came after me really fast, declaring war on turn 2. I barely managed to hold a continuous line across the front, giving the AI casualties of typically 5:1 or more as I played defensively. Then the AI began to farm hordes of armored cars then of infantry guns, and punched through my lines and flanked me. Despite having a mostly-infantry army and killing five times as many enemy infantry (over 5000) as I had in my whole army, the AI kept generating more infantry than me, not to mention dozens of armored cars and infantry guns, whereas I could manage only a much smaller number of armored cars. I never managed to reach a point where I could afford to build my TOE units other than infantry, armored cars and fewer than ten artillery.I DID upgrade minerals and oil as fast as I could, but that made no significant difference since I could not afford to build oil guzzlers without leaving holes in my front line due to lack of infantry.

I will have to give it a shot with your settings, after re-reading about exactly what advantages the AI is given in this game I haven't played for a long while.From your comment and my result, it seems mostly to have to do with resources.The AI is very good at spotting weak points in the line, punching through and infiltrating around the flanks.It is also very good at using its numerical superiority to bait the player into risky advances and then exploiting the resulting player weaknesses.

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Twotribes
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RE: Random Game Setup

Post by Twotribes »

The AI never suffers from low resources. But it can run out of supplies.
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Philo32b
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RE: Random Game Setup

Post by Philo32b »

@henri51. Instead of trying to form a static line that repels the AI, perhaps try a more elastic defense. When the AI starts kicking my butt with these overruns, I keep retreating my forces a hex away from the enemy as I continue to build up my forces. The little bit of distance each turn takes some of the force out of their attacks, but does slow them down.

Also, as Webizen notes, make machine guns, anti-tank guns, and armored cars a priority immediately. You don't need a lot in your units to blunt much of the butt kicking power of the AI.
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henri51
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RE: Random Game Setup

Post by henri51 »

ORIGINAL: Philo32b

@henri51. Instead of trying to form a static line that repels the AI, perhaps try a more elastic defense. When the AI starts kicking my butt with these overruns, I keep retreating my forces a hex away from the enemy as I continue to build up my forces. The little bit of distance each turn takes some of the force out of their attacks, but does slow them down.

Also, as Webizen notes, make machine guns, anti-tank guns, and armored cars a priority immediately. You don't need a lot in your units to blunt much of the butt kicking power of the AI.

I haven't tried that, but the problem is that moving units back destroys their entrenchment value, which is quite significant in defence.

I also noted that for a number of moves before I quit, the AI units all had the yellow dot indicating low supplies, which did nothing to slow them down. This problem of the AI mega-producing itself to suicide is discussed in another thread. ad I know that, I should probably have cut down on counterattacks, concentrated on building more defensive units, and waited for the AI supply to go red. Of course this assumes that after that point, I can destroy AI units faster than the AI can build them...

I would like to see a TOE AAR 1 vs 1, on a medium map, with other standard settings, played by an expert in order to see how how an expert would handle a broad front war against the AI. I suspect that given the AI advantages with free units, free factories, free supplies, unlimited free transports etc, the player has a very tough time in such a situation. Perhaps adding some water would help, since I understand that the AI does not handle water very well.
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Tac2i
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RE: Random Game Setup

Post by Tac2i »

I just started a game last evening vs 3 AI with the settings I mentioned. Unfortunately for me, in this particular game, all three AI declared war on me on the first turn and I had my regime moving last. I've only lost to the AI once or twice in all the years I've played this game. This could be another time. My plan is to rapidly organize my forces to blunt the initial AI onslaught. I'll try to hold in good defensive terrain where available and build my offensive power in terrain favorable to armored warfare. It is going to be a very challenging struggle.

@henri51: Don't give up... keep trying. The AI can be stopped and you can take the war to them. AT Guns are essential in the early turns when the AI starts coming after you with armored cars. Don't forget the tank modeling feature either. I also build cavalry if I can afford to and it is very effective against infantry and has very good recon values.
ORIGINAL: henri51
ORIGINAL: Philo32b

@henri51. Instead of trying to form a static line that repels the AI, perhaps try a more elastic defense. When the AI starts kicking my butt with these overruns, I keep retreating my forces a hex away from the enemy as I continue to build up my forces. The little bit of distance each turn takes some of the force out of their attacks, but does slow them down.

Also, as Webizen notes, make machine guns, anti-tank guns, and armored cars a priority immediately. You don't need a lot in your units to blunt much of the butt kicking power of the AI.

I haven't tried that, but the problem is that moving units back destroys their entrenchment value, which is quite significant in defence.

I also noted that for a number of moves before I quit, the AI units all had the yellow dot indicating low supplies, which did nothing to slow them down. This problem of the AI mega-producing itself to suicide is discussed in another thread. ad I know that, I should probably have cut down on counterattacks, concentrated on building more defensive units, and waited for the AI supply to go red. Of course this assumes that after that point, I can destroy AI units faster than the AI can build them...

I would like to see a TOE AAR 1 vs 1, on a medium map, with other standard settings, played by an expert in order to see how how an expert would handle a broad front war against the AI. I suspect that given the AI advantages with free units, free factories, free supplies, unlimited free transports etc, the player has a very tough time in such a situation. Perhaps adding some water would help, since I understand that the AI does not handle water very well.
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henri51
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RE: Random Game Setup

Post by henri51 »

I just realized why I am getting steamrolled: I am not using "depleted land" as you recommend above. I read elsewhere that the AI uses its free units, free factories, and other advantages to create combat units as fast as it can, and does not stop producing when it runs low on supplies. The "depleted land" option reduces supply availability, and so brings the AI out of supplies earlier in the game, hopefully before it can overwhelm the human player, whose best strategy is probably to stay on the defensive using as many strong defensive units as possible as you suggest above, until the AI runs low on supplies.

My game is probably impossible to win in its present condition, but there may be a chance to salvage it from an earlier savegame, by researching MGII as you suggested, by adding infantry guns and AT guns, and by refraining from weakening my line by counterattacking. Also the lack of choke points on my medium-size map forces me to disperse my strength and to keep producing infantry to fill the line, which favors the stronger opponent.
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ernieschwitz
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RE: Random Game Setup

Post by ernieschwitz »

I read elsewhere that the AI uses its free units

What do you mean by free units?
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henri51
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RE: Random Game Setup

Post by henri51 »

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz
I read elsewhere that the AI uses its free units

What do you mean by free units?

I mean that the AI gets some free units and factories, unless I misread a list of AI advantages posted by Vic on the wiki (google Advanced tactics AI advantages).
_____________________________________________________
(from the wiki):

AI Advantages in AT Gold rules scenarios

If you play in the new random games or any other AT Gold rules scenario the AI will have a number of advantages. These have been put in to augment existing AT AI weaknesses and provide more challenging gameplay and also to let the AI not be burdened by new rules introduced in AT Gold.

* AI gets a little base resource and fuel income and a little bonus on top of each location [scripted in generic.at2]

* AI gets option to produce supply in enemy towns at 200% of the normal cost [scripted in generic.at2]

* AI gets 10% combat and 25% movement bonus [scripted in generic.at2]

* AI gets free transfers [rulevar for this enabled in generic.at2]

* AI gets free construction of units and HQs [rulevar for this enabled in generic.at2]

* AI will get a very limited number of free factories / resource upgrades over time, but the number increases for AI+ and AI++ [scripted in generic.at2]

* AI gets less penalty for supply path entering land without port. [rulevar in generic.at2]

* AI gets less penalty for supply crossing river without bridge. [rulevar in generic.at2]

* AI gets 33% autorepair on its locations [rulevar in generic.at2]
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ernieschwitz
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RE: Random Game Setup

Post by ernieschwitz »

You have misread. Unit construction is the PP cost for making units. Thats what it gets for free.
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major.pain
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RE: Random Game Setup

Post by major.pain »

Is it not better to rush for Rifle II instead of Machinegun II seen as how the upgrade will benefit 80 percent of your army?????
Just wondering as thats always my goto but i probably not played it as much as some of you old timers on here :)
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Tac2i
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RE: Random Game Setup

Post by Tac2i »

I do aim for Rifle II but not before MGII. Rifle II can be expensive and MGII can get me tangible benefits almost immediately.
ORIGINAL: M J R

Is it not better to rush for Rifle II instead of Machinegun II seen as how the upgrade will benefit 80 percent of your army?????
Just wondering as thats always my goto but i probably not played it as much as some of you old timers on here :)
Tac2i (formerly webizen)
Philo32b
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RE: Random Game Setup

Post by Philo32b »

Webizen, on your original topic, thank you for posting the game settings you have been using. I am trying them out, and it is quite fun. It is a challenge to have so little resources, although having your cities recycle raw takes some of the sting out of that.

My game has gone the opposite of yours: two of the AI nations declared war on the third, leaving me to build up completely unbothered until I was ready to attack the under defended flank of one of the AIs. I've never seen that happen before. Almost feels like I am cheating.
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