[WAD] Strike mission bug?

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cns180784
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Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:22 am

[WAD] Strike mission bug?

Post by cns180784 »

Hi i was playing the En Garde scenario and i set up a strike mission for 5 of my strike aircraft to destroy a barracks building, which was known as objective 5, one of the targets in the scenario. In the mission editor i added Objective 5 as the target but when i did, it gave my strike package a flight plan to strike a radar that was south of the objective instead. Tried this a few times removing and selecting the objective in mission editor but same would happen so decided to delete the mission and guide them to the target manually by plotting their course.
After doing this with the strike package getting closer to the objective i decided to try the mission editor again (as i wanted to watch my CAP take on some typhoons), and this time it worked, giving the group a flight plan to strike the objective so they would (should) release all their weapons at the IP, as this was the max range of their SCALP weapons and then RTB. But what they did and unknown to me was the flight plan must have changed after, for them to strike the radar again, and i hadnt noticed this until i saw 2 of the group of 5 RTB, and i thought, why are they RTB? they havent got to in range of the objective...and then i noticed their 2 SCALPs on their way to the radar. Bizarrely the other 3 still looked like they were heading for the objective but i didnt leave it to the mission editor after this, deleted it, and guided them manually and manually released their weapons.

They succeeded in taking out the objective but i couldnt be sure how many might malfunction and i wasnt bothered about the radar which is why i wanted all 5 to strike the objective, and in the end due to the apparent bug with the mission editor, i had only 3 strike it, found this very frustrating and had ordered he same group to strike objective 3 before which seemed to work fine, though i think i just had to order 3 of them to manually launch their weapons but they did strike the objective i wanted them to strike.

Found that strike on objective 5 very frustrating and has anyone else had this? seems i cant rely on the mission editor which means more micromanaging.
Tomcat84
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by Tomcat84 »

Do you have or can you make a savegame where the mission is made in the way that produces this behavior? I just tried to set it up and they attack Objetive 5 just fine so it would be best if we could see your mission in the editor to see if maybe there is a setting causing it.

Also are you running 1.08?
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cns180784
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by cns180784 »

Hi yea im running 1.08. I'm running the scen now and have to strike objective 4 next so if it happens again i'll save it at that point. Havent done this before where i show a save file so not sure how i do it, but i'll make a save and name it if it happens again where they target something other than objective 4 and save it with the mission editor open...like i said i'm unsure of how to do it so you can see though, could you please explain how i do it? thanks.
cns180784
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by cns180784 »

Thought i'd add...i find it strange and a bit too easy and unrealistic that the uk has no SAMs in this scen, but i was told its an ideal starter scenario to play after the tutorials.
cns180784
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by cns180784 »

Ok when i went in for strike on obj 4, used 7 rafales with SCALP loadouts and they had one weapon each. The mission editor worked and went for the right target but at the IP only 2 of the 7 launched their weapons which happened for obj 3 and i saved it at that point.
mikmykWS
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by mikmykWS »

Hi CNS

Did you have the opportunity target ROE set to on?

If you post the file we can likely tell you what's going on.

Thanks!

Mike
ComDev
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by ComDev »

Savegame pre- and post-problem?

WRA settings?

Doctrine settings?

Thanks! [8D]
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Tomcat84
Posts: 1952
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by Tomcat84 »

ORIGINAL: cns180784
only 2 of the 7 launched their weapons which happened for obj 3

That is probably (I am 99% sure) due to the WRA settings on the mission.

If you open the mission editor for that mission and on the left side click the button Mission Doctrine, EMCON, WRA and then go to thetab "Weapon Release Authorization (WRA)" and then click the plus symbol in front of SCALP EG you can set up exactly how you want them to behave.

You can see that for all Land structure type targets, the default is "Inherited, Target's Missile Defense Value". If you click on objetive 3 and open it in the database viewer you can see that it is a Barracks building and at the bottom part of "General Data" you can see that it says "Missile Defence: 2 Harpoon / SLAM / Maverick equivalents".

I believe that is where the Rafales are getting the setting from to launch 2 SCALPs cause it should be enough in this case to take it out.

Also under General data for the Barracks you can see that its category is "Building (Surface)" and that it has light armor.

So if you want the Rafales to for example launch 4 rounds, change the Weapons per Salvo WRA setting for Land Structure - Soft - Building (Surface) to "4 rnds".

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Now they should launch 4 at the target.

For the initial problem (with the mission striking the radar) important things to check in the mission editor are:
- The right target in the target list
- the box "Pre Planned targets (in target list) only" should be checked
- in the Mission doctrine, "Engage opportunity targets" should be set to No.

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If they still act weird after that I dont know. If you see it happen, save right then so we can open the savegame and see your mission settings.


Hope this helps!

also, here's a good read on WRA:

http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=3598
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cns180784
Posts: 448
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by cns180784 »

Thanks for your replies especially yours Tomcat84, i have it saved just after those 2 rafales launched their weapons and after looking at the mission editor and WRA, think i can see why only 2 of them launched and why when i struck obj 5 that they struck the radar. In the mission doctrine i had engage opportunity targets set to no...but in the mission editor i hadnt checked the box for pre planned targets only, so that must explain the strike on the radar by 2 rafales (with the other 3 in the group heading for the intended target obj 5) and in WRA i decided to alter that to solve the weapon release issue after the strike on obj 3 and i set land contact unknown and unspecified to 7 rnds for weapon per salvo (7 rafales in strike package), with shooters per salvo set to fire enough weapons from units to fulfill weapon requirement. Turns out this was wrong as the target was as you demonstrated a soft building (surface) pretty stupid on my part lol.

I'll replay it and hopefully this time will go as planned. I have a question though, in a loadouts' strike radius, is the radius the distance the unit can fly from its base to a point (where you would have it release its weapons) before having to RTB due to bingo fuel? i originally thought the strike radius was the total distance it can fly but they seem to have a lot more fuel than that.

cns180784
Posts: 448
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by cns180784 »

Well just tried it and this time they didnt strike the radar but again only fired 2 SCALPs at the target, and in WRA i set building surface soft to 5 rnds for weapons per salvo. The 3 that didnt fire theirs carried on to the target, and when the 2 weapons impacted the target that had released destroyed it, those 3 RTB'd. I guess they would have released their weapons if those 2 had failed but thats not how i wanted them to work. I had a fighter patrol covering them and wanted my CAP aircraft and strike aircraft to be exposed to the enemy CAPs for the least time possible. Hence why i wanted them to get in, strike at max range all 5 weapons, then have them all RTB including my CAP but those 3 hung around needlessly when they should have launched their weapons same time as the others...at the IP of their flight plan. The reason behind wanting to fire all 5 is so theres' more chance of hitting the target, as u never know if the first 4 malfunction with 85% reliability, or they got shot down, for all i know there could have been MANPADS nearby or a mobile SAM...frustrating cant see what ive got set wrong in the mission editor.
Tomcat84
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by Tomcat84 »

ORIGINAL: cns180784

Well just tried it and this time they didnt strike the radar but again only fired 2 SCALPs at the target, and in WRA i set building surface soft to 5 rnds for weapons per salvo. The 3 that didnt fire theirs carried on to the target, and when the 2 weapons impacted the target that had released destroyed it, those 3 RTB'd. I guess they would have released their weapons if those 2 had failed but thats not how i wanted them to work. I had a fighter patrol covering them and wanted my CAP aircraft and strike aircraft to be exposed to the enemy CAPs for the least time possible. Hence why i wanted them to get in, strike at max range all 5 weapons, then have them all RTB including my CAP but those 3 hung around needlessly when they should have launched their weapons same time as the others...at the IP of their flight plan. The reason behind wanting to fire all 5 is so theres' more chance of hitting the target, as u never know if the first 4 malfunction with 85% reliability, or they got shot down, for all i know there could have been MANPADS nearby or a mobile SAM...frustrating cant see what ive got set wrong in the mission editor.


Sorry about that. Your reasons for firing more make perfect sense. I gave you the advice from memory without testing if it was correct and now that I also ran it indeed they only fired 2. I tried a bit more and it turns out the Barracks fall under the category Land Structure - Hardened - Building (Surface). Not the soft one.

If you set THAT one to the amount you want they should fire enough. So if there is any armor listed in the DB viewer, even light, it falls under hardened. I found that Building Tents and Building Control tower have armor listed as "none" in the DB viewer and for those the Soft category applies.

Sorry I gave you incorrect advice before!

ORIGINAL: cns180784
I have a question though, in a loadouts' strike radius, is the radius the distance the unit can fly from its base to a point (where you would have it release its weapons) before having to RTB due to bingo fuel? i originally thought the strike radius was the total distance it can fly but they seem to have a lot more fuel than that.

Yes that is how far out they can go, engage and then still come back. So essentially they fly twice that distance (once to get there and then once to come back)

I am not sure if, in the case of longer range weapons like JASSM or SCALP-EG, the sim takes into account the distance how far away the target is as its max or how far away the weapon should be dropped. I would assume the former (so you would gain a bit of extra fuel with long range weapons?) but the developers would have to answer that to be sure.


Hope this helps again!
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cns180784
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:22 am

RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by cns180784 »

Thanks Tomcat84 you've been most helpful and i have just tried it again setting all weapons of the strike group to engage the objective and they did, so yea like u said, a building with no armour is soft, but even just light armour classes it as hardened. Only one thing, i had another save where i saved the game at where only 2 of my 7 strike group rafales launched their weapons, and i adjusted the WRA in that so they fired all weapons at hardened surface building and it didnt work, the remaining 5 with their weapons just carried on flying towards their target not releasing their weapons. I'm guessing this is down to having not planned to strike with all 7 weapons to begin with, and couldnt be adjusted at this stage after the first 2 had fired, so slightly frustrating but still if you get it right to begin with when creating the mission then they will release exactly what you want.

cns180784
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:22 am

RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by cns180784 »

Or maybe in that instance where 2 of the 7 released, adjusted WRA for the rest to release but there was a delay in them launching their weapons coz of the OODA loop? so if i had waited another say 15 secs or less they would have launched and RTB'd. I'll try it now.
cns180784
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by cns180784 »

No they still didnt launch their weapons, and i even tried disbanding the group, then just grouping the 5 that hadnt launched their weapons, deleted the strike mission, created a new one and added them to that, still didnt release their weapons. Had to manually make them launch.
thewood1
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by thewood1 »

Is there a save game to play around with. I didn't see it.
Casinn
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by Casinn »

don't think he can post it yet, created 7/31 and 9 posts?
thewood1
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by thewood1 »

Everyone could be barking up the wrong tree until we see a save...just post a dummy post to get enough to put the save up.
mikmykWS
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by mikmykWS »

Yeah it's the best way to really see what's going on. No harm in asking for one.

Mike
cns180784
Posts: 448
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RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by cns180784 »

Yea i've got a save at the point where 2 of the 7 rafales launch their weapons, how do i post it for you to see on here?
mikmykWS
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Strike mission bug?

Post by mikmykWS »

Zip it up and upload by hitting post reply and adding it to your post. You have to post a reply to do this and not use quick reply.

If you don't have enough posts just add a couple of dummy posts.

Mike
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