"Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

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Fred98
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"Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by Fred98 »

I have a unit with 28 movement points.

I move a unit forward and uncover some unseen enemy units.

I hit "undo" and my move is undone. And I still have 28 movement points.

If a unit does any action, that provides information about an enemy unit or about a hex, undo should not be available.

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Lobster
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by Lobster »

When playing a PBEM game a beep is given in the playback when an opposing player uses undo. Usually undo is one of those things that's agreed to be 'cheating' in PBEM. Perhaps some way to disable it in those games. In a single player game I and others really don't care what someone does.
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Freyr Oakenshield
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by Freyr Oakenshield »

It wouldn't hurt if it was disabled by default in situations Joe 98 described. I once played PBEM against somebody who used "undone movements" as a legitimate way of recce... [:D]
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sPzAbt653
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Another good reason not to pbem [;)]

To the original post - I don't want someone else arbitrarily deciding that I am cheating. And if I am cheating against Elmer then I am only cheating myself. Plus and besides, Elmer cheats too.
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by Lobster »

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield

It wouldn't hurt if it was disabled by default in situations Joe 98 described. I once played PBEM against somebody who used "undone movements" as a legitimate way of recce... [:D]

Been there myself Martin. Exactly why those people run out of opponents. Steel Panthers used to be really easy for people to play part of a turn and if things turned out well save it, if not replay it. That was back in the Leadeaters days before Matrix bought and gutted the club.
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Fred98
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by Fred98 »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Another good reason not to pbem [;)]


So, how do you play? Surely you do not play the AI!

.

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Freyr Oakenshield
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by Freyr Oakenshield »

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Another good reason not to pbem [;)]


So, how do you play? Surely you do not play the AI!

.




He was only teasing... [;)]
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Fred98
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by Fred98 »

ORIGINAL: Lobster

....in a PBEM game a beep is given in the playback when an opposing player uses undo.

........undo is one of those things that's agreed to be 'cheating' in PBEM.

I suspect the developer thought of my idea and found it too hard and instead used the beep. :)

How about.... I move troops that start a long way from the from to another place a long way from the front. I realise my mistake and hit undo.

Would the opponent still get a beep?


secadegas
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by secadegas »

Would the opponent still get a beep?

IN PBEM mode everytime - no matter why or what - you use undo your opponent gets a beep on the playback.

Undo isn't cheating. Sometimes your finger gets nervous and becomes faster than your brain.

Around TOAW community it's for long established that it's always polite to justify to your PBEM opponent any use you make of undo.

Like in most things use it but not abuse it.




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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by SMK-at-work »

Who has time to run through 4-10,000 items of a FITE move??

I know some of my opponents have done........but if you're playing me you're safe!!

Also a "beep" - really? I did not know that.....'cos I don't replay massive moves...and ALSO be3cause if I did I have shitty speakers and I wouldn't have my sound on!!

how about a reply option to "go to" any "undo"'s??
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by sPzAbt653 »

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Another good reason not to pbem [;)]


So, how do you play? Surely you do not play the AI!

.




He was only teasing... [;)]

Say NO to PBEM's - Humans Suck !!

And also say NO to PNG's - they are evil !
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by shunwick »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Say NO to PBEM's - Humans Suck !!

And also say NO to PNG's - they are evil !

Steve (no, the other one) agrees wholeheartedly with Steve (the other one)

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Lobster
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by Lobster »

I've never really cared when someone did an undo if no units near the front were used. No chance of recon there, eh? I have played people whose playback sounded like a garbage truck backing up. I do have problems with that. I think an option to undo the undo would be best.
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walkra
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by walkra »

Hi. I think pbem must be played Like in chess. Piece touched, moved piece. I tend to making the mistake of destroying the bridges (because one of the first actions of the right to destroy bridges), but never use the undo button because I think that is how the mistakes made by officers in command of any unit. Undo should not exist (in PBEM).
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by Blind Sniper »

Something like in WitE where undo function is greyed out if you get some intel but you can use if you made a mistake in the rear, can be feasible?
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Svejk1914
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by Svejk1914 »

There are plenty of games out already that have solved this problem. If your move uncovers previously unseen units or involves combat, you can't undo it. If it doesn't, you can. See Panzer Korps for example.

No beeps required.
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Lobster
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by Lobster »

ORIGINAL: Oldwave

There are plenty of games out already that have solved this problem. If your move uncovers previously unseen units or involves combat, you can't undo it. If it doesn't, you can. See Panzer Korps for example.

No beeps required.

Seriously? Knowing where your enemy is not is as good as knowing where they are. Undo against any opponent is cheating, no ifs ands or buts.

If someone is so inclined as to need to cheat then why bother to play? Is it some mental condition that cannot tolerate losing a GAME? Nothing hinges on your winning or losing except some personal ego issue. Now, if you lose because a game is broken than that might be a little frustrating. But losing simply because the other guy did a better job than you shouldn't do anything more than teach you how to do better next time.
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Fred98
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by Fred98 »

Lobster you did not read what he said.

"Undo is cheating. If a move provides info of any sort such as learning the enemy is not there, the undo should be greyed out".

On the other hand if I am moving about begin the lines and I select the wrong unit then obviously I should be able to undo.

Many war games achieved this in the last century.

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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by SMK-at-work »

Not all undo is cheating - I am notorious (to myself) for destroying bridges instead of digging in, or vice versa, and as far as I'm concerned undoing those is not cheating.
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RE: "Undo" can be used for recon - not a good idea

Post by larryfulkerson »

destroying bridges instead of digging in,
I've lost count of the number of times I've meant to dig in a unit and blew the bridge instead. I wish they would move the "blow the
bridge" option to the bottom of the menu list or something.
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