Question about conquering port with fleets in port
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Question about conquering port with fleets in port
To anyone smarter than me -
I'm having another fun go at Global War and taking a much more aggressive posture with the Italians. I had a breakthrough in southern France and will be able to attack the port currently housing a partially battered French fleet. Several ships were damaged and all "aborted" last turn to avoid a catastrophe. Now they are sitting in port and the Italians are in a position to attack at decent odds, given the availability of Naval support.
My question is this -
I want the best chance for the Italian player to capture as many ships as possible, assuming the attack succeeds. Since the ships aborted last turn (some dmaged) will that help the Italian cause here? Will it be more likely for French ships to go Italian or is there anything else I can do to help the odds?
A more powerful Italian fleet is the objective.
Any help will be appreciated!
I'm having another fun go at Global War and taking a much more aggressive posture with the Italians. I had a breakthrough in southern France and will be able to attack the port currently housing a partially battered French fleet. Several ships were damaged and all "aborted" last turn to avoid a catastrophe. Now they are sitting in port and the Italians are in a position to attack at decent odds, given the availability of Naval support.
My question is this -
I want the best chance for the Italian player to capture as many ships as possible, assuming the attack succeeds. Since the ships aborted last turn (some dmaged) will that help the Italian cause here? Will it be more likely for French ships to go Italian or is there anything else I can do to help the odds?
A more powerful Italian fleet is the objective.
Any help will be appreciated!
- paulderynck
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
Any disrupted ship can be captured. And of course on a surprise turn - which I know this is not - any overrun undisrupted ship can be captured.
So are there any that are not disrupted? If so port strike them first and disrupt the choicest ones that aren't yet disrupted.
Since you have shore bombardment, you should be able to try to intercept any that survive the capture rolls - be sure that at least one of your ships in the sea zone can initiate the search, when the time comes (i.e. is itself not yet disrupted, which participating in shore bombardment will do).
So are there any that are not disrupted? If so port strike them first and disrupt the choicest ones that aren't yet disrupted.
Since you have shore bombardment, you should be able to try to intercept any that survive the capture rolls - be sure that at least one of your ships in the sea zone can initiate the search, when the time comes (i.e. is itself not yet disrupted, which participating in shore bombardment will do).
Paul
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
Thanks Paul, that's helpful!
It sounds like another turn of Port Striking them is in order! Wish the Italians (and the lone German NAV currently "on loan") were a little more effective!
I'm pretty sure the answer is "no" - but is there any way a Naval force (with no Carrier units) can Port Strike? Like the way the British famously did against portions of the French fleet in port in North Africa?
ANother Q - in a recent Global War solitaire I got all the way to 1945 and never figured out how the US builds an A-Bomb. Can you provide some help there. or point me to the rules page that would cover it?
Thanks!
It sounds like another turn of Port Striking them is in order! Wish the Italians (and the lone German NAV currently "on loan") were a little more effective!
I'm pretty sure the answer is "no" - but is there any way a Naval force (with no Carrier units) can Port Strike? Like the way the British famously did against portions of the French fleet in port in North Africa?
ANother Q - in a recent Global War solitaire I got all the way to 1945 and never figured out how the US builds an A-Bomb. Can you provide some help there. or point me to the rules page that would cover it?
Thanks!
- Jagdtiger14
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
The other thing to consider: I'm not sure how MWiF Vichey works, but the board game allocates points to both sides for various reasons, and this allows you to buy certain Vichey units including ships...if MWiF works this way, then that is a good way to build the Italian fleet. Otherwise over-running disrupted ships is the only way.
Damaged ships go to the repair pool in MWiF?...they would not be eligible for over-run.
A-bombs are available for purchase, and have certain requirements for their use...I think a particular bomber type?...I cant remember.
No...on the naval force with no carrier air port striking.
Damaged ships go to the repair pool in MWiF?...they would not be eligible for over-run.
A-bombs are available for purchase, and have certain requirements for their use...I think a particular bomber type?...I cant remember.
No...on the naval force with no carrier air port striking.
Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC
RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
A-bombs are an optional rule in WiF. Unfortunately, that optional rule has not yet been implemented in MWiF.
It is on the list to be done, but do not expect it any time soon.
It is on the list to be done, but do not expect it any time soon.
I thought I knew how to play this game....
- paulderynck
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
That is a popular community generated optional rule called "LOC Vichy". But it is not RAW Vichy, which is what MWiF is coded against.ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14
The other thing to consider: I'm not sure how MWiF Vichey works, but the board game allocates points to both sides for various reasons, and this allows you to buy certain Vichey units including ships...if MWiF works this way, then that is a good way to build the Italian fleet. Otherwise over-running disrupted ships is the only way.
One advantage of driving French BBs out of all home country ports (as long as at least one remains on the map somewhere - not captured and not in the repair pool) is that there's a 20% higher chance for each French Administration Group to go Vichy versus Free France, in the event Vichy gets installed. If all the ones that are minor countries do, then Free France is conquered and not even of limited use to the Allies for the balance of the game.
If that occurs any Territories that went Free France will instead go neutral. (Or should go neutral, MWiF may have a minor bug currently, giving them to the Axis power that installed Vichy instead.)
Paul
- Jagdtiger14
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
Oh yes...LOC Vichy...I think that came out in an annual. Very popular with our group...I'm surprised its not RAW yet. Lane Brody also came up with "Simple" Factories in Flames, which we play tested (he's in our group), and works very well...hope that makes it into RAW.
Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC
- paulderynck
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
You'll be very fortunate to ever see FiF in MWiF in your lifetime, let alone Simple FiF (which I too prefer but only when my arm is twisted painfully behind my back to play FiF in the first place).
IMO FiF was much like Operation Market Garden - a module too far...
There are some good optional rules in it that we use in stand alone mode: Shipyards and Specialization. And of course a few more shiny baubles in the way of units to add to the overall chrome.
IMO FiF was much like Operation Market Garden - a module too far...
There are some good optional rules in it that we use in stand alone mode: Shipyards and Specialization. And of course a few more shiny baubles in the way of units to add to the overall chrome.
Paul
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
Thanks for all the great info everybody! Since the A-Bomb is not currently a playable option I feel better about Germany not able to build it! While it was never a realistic option in reality, so much of the value of this game is exploring options not realistic!
Still loving the game, still solitaire only, still learning every time I play!
Still loving the game, still solitaire only, still learning every time I play!
- Joseignacio
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
ORIGINAL: tom730
I want the best chance for the Italian player to capture as many ships as possible, assuming the attack succeeds. Since the ships aborted last turn (some dmaged) will that help the Italian cause here? Will it be more likely for French ships to go Italian or is there anything else I can do to help the odds?
A more powerful Italian fleet is the objective.
Any help will be appreciated!
Just after coming back form holidays, a look to the old forums ...
I hope what Paul told you was enough. He is referring to increasing the number of ships you can roll for. The chances of being successful in any of these rolls cannot be altered, you get a 10% chance of capturing (roll a "1"), a 30% of destroying it (2 to 4) and a 60% of it being saved, so it needs to relocate to another port...
... while your whole fleet is outside waiting for them, possibly helped by some Navs or CVs to improve chances of fighting.
Since I assume you are rather new to WIF and MWIF, let me remind you that when a country is conquered (but not "Vichyed", which has it's own rules) even if the conquer is "incomplete" as it would be in the case of France if you take all the factories and don't create Vichy, all the remaining ships in the conquered hexes roll again like before, in your example.
Same as they told you about Surprise impulse, where it happens the same.
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
I'm just curious, if you tried to put shipyards in without the rest of FiF, how would you do it? Because the "cost one less" means more when you spread out the building costs the way FiF makes you do, whereas if you pay them in a lump sum a la regular WiF, that one less is still nice, but not as big of a deal.
Do you make some kind of tweak, or do you just leave them with a (comparatively) lesser effect?
As for me, the one I really would like to do without the rest of the bells and whistles of FiF is the coastal forts. Really makes it tougher to advance (and thus more historical) in the Pacific if the Japanese get those cheap pseudounits.
Do you make some kind of tweak, or do you just leave them with a (comparatively) lesser effect?
As for me, the one I really would like to do without the rest of the bells and whistles of FiF is the coastal forts. Really makes it tougher to advance (and thus more historical) in the Pacific if the Japanese get those cheap pseudounits.
"When beset by danger,
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
- paulderynck
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
I regularly play Shipyards, Specialization and all the KiF units without FiF (which I regard as a massive PITA that I'm not interested in spending game time on). None of this can be done in MWiF - I'm referring to FTF and Vassal games. You can do this with "normal" production using the Spiral or with "Simple FiF" (rules and charts for which are in the Vassal module).
Shipyards we rule that if you have more than one you still can't gain more than one free BP per ship being built. So with two shipyards you could spend 2 BPs and gain 2 BPs - all spent on ship repair or construction but no more than one free BP per ship.
Specialization we rule you must choose the unit first - a subtle difference that prevents people from lucking out when building several of the same type - by doing the random draw first (of X minus 1, where X is the quantity you said you'd build), getting the best one, and then using Specialization to pick the next best one. Of course you could still build the best one first and then luck out and draw the next best, but the ruled way is little less egregious.
Shipyards we rule that if you have more than one you still can't gain more than one free BP per ship being built. So with two shipyards you could spend 2 BPs and gain 2 BPs - all spent on ship repair or construction but no more than one free BP per ship.
Specialization we rule you must choose the unit first - a subtle difference that prevents people from lucking out when building several of the same type - by doing the random draw first (of X minus 1, where X is the quantity you said you'd build), getting the best one, and then using Specialization to pick the next best one. Of course you could still build the best one first and then luck out and draw the next best, but the ruled way is little less egregious.
Paul
- Joseignacio
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
ORIGINAL: paulderynck
I regularly play Shipyards, Specialization and all the KiF units without FiF (which I regard as a massive PITA that I'm not interested in spending game time on). None of this can be done in MWiF - I'm referring to FTF and Vassal games. You can do this with "normal" production using the Spiral or with "Simple FiF" (rules and charts for which are in the Vassal module).
Shipyards we rule that if you have more than one you still can't gain more than one free BP per ship being built. So with two shipyards you could spend 2 BPs and gain 2 BPs - all spent on ship repair or construction but no more than one free BP per ship.
Specialization we rule you must choose the unit first - a subtle difference that prevents people from lucking out when building several of the same type - by doing the random draw first (of X minus 1, where X is the quantity you said you'd build), getting the best one, and then using Specialization to pick the next best one. Of course you could still build the best one first and then luck out and draw the next best, but the ruled way is little less egregious.
To be true, according to the RAW you couldn't do it any other way (IMHO):
Each turn where you spend at least one build point on units of the type the shipyard produces at its location, you can spend one additional build point on the Shipyard's units for free.
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
Oh, of course according to RAW you can't do it any other way.
But say I'm playing Japan. I want to finish the Yamato. That costs a hefty 5 BP.
If I'm playing no FiF but with Shipyards, and assuming I have exactly 1, I push out the Yamato, it now costs 4, I've saved 1 BP.
If I'm playing with FiF, I build the Yamato, which obligates me to spend 5 BP over the course of 5 turns. As long as I pair that with other SCS builds, and I'll arrange something, I stand to save 5 BP over the construction cycle of the Yamato.
That whole spreading out of the production costs inherent in FiF makes the shipyards cost-saving more powerful, and I was just curious if you preferred to keep the rules minimalistically changed, or if you tried to preserve that kind of power that they had under the rules they were designed with.
But say I'm playing Japan. I want to finish the Yamato. That costs a hefty 5 BP.
If I'm playing no FiF but with Shipyards, and assuming I have exactly 1, I push out the Yamato, it now costs 4, I've saved 1 BP.
If I'm playing with FiF, I build the Yamato, which obligates me to spend 5 BP over the course of 5 turns. As long as I pair that with other SCS builds, and I'll arrange something, I stand to save 5 BP over the construction cycle of the Yamato.
That whole spreading out of the production costs inherent in FiF makes the shipyards cost-saving more powerful, and I was just curious if you preferred to keep the rules minimalistically changed, or if you tried to preserve that kind of power that they had under the rules they were designed with.
"When beset by danger,
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
- paulderynck
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
Seems to me no matter how you slice it, FiF or no FiF, you get one free BP per turn per Shipyard as long as you spend one per shipyard per turn. You spend the same and save the same. Each turn you get towards having the Yamato for free in your FiF example means you spent a BP on some other ship at the same location. Indeed, to have the Shipyard give you the Yamato for free over the course of 5 turns means you were obligated to build ships there every one of those turns.
Paul
- Joseignacio
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
True, Paul. I see it the same way.
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
But that's only true if you're spending 2+ BP on ships every turn. Which you probably aren't, especially as the clock starts to reach 44-45. Even for the big naval powers of the U.S., CW, and Japan, you're only building so many SCS, so many carriers. I mean, let's face it, a lot of sea control is done with fighters and navs, which means that SCS are usually second line, and thus a bit further down in the priority listings.
"When beset by danger,
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
- paulderynck
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
You get one free BP per turn per Shipyard as long as you spend one per shipyard per turn.
Paul
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
Isn't it 2 per shipyard per turn? I thought if you only spent 1 per shipyard, say you built a single cruiser, you didn't get anything, only the "second" BP got saved.
"When beset by danger,
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
When in deadly doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout."
- paulderynck
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RE: Question about conquering port with fleets in port
In FiF you'd need another ship in the queue because you only spend one BP per ship per turn. So with a shipyard you could advance two ships for one BP. An exception would be rushing a ship. A ship being repaired or on its second cycle may be advanced two turns instead of one for a cost of 3 BPs. If you did that at a shipyard, it would cost 2 BPs.
Without FiF, one shipyard can build a ship that costs 2 or more and you pay that cost less one. A ship that costs one (like a CA on its first cycle or being repaired) can be built for free if you spend at least one BP on some other ship. This can occur once each turn for each shipyard you have.
Without FiF, one shipyard can build a ship that costs 2 or more and you pay that cost less one. A ship that costs one (like a CA on its first cycle or being repaired) can be built for free if you spend at least one BP on some other ship. This can occur once each turn for each shipyard you have.
Paul