War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Gary Grigsby’s War in the West 1943-45 is the most ambitious and detailed computer wargame on the Western Front of World War II ever made. Starting with the Summer 1943 invasions of Sicily and Italy and proceeding through the invasions of France and the drive into Germany, War in the West brings you all the Allied campaigns in Western Europe and the capability to re-fight the Western Front according to your plan.

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Daniele
Posts: 1797
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:27 am

War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by Daniele »

Hi all!

War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Here's the changelog with all of the changes since the last official version.


V1.00.48 – 12 July 2015

• New Features and Rule Changes

1. East Front Option (section 23) – Made a few more balance adjustments to the East Front option that changes the amount of Soviet potential received at different times during the war. While doing this fixed a bug in the AI that was not giving the German AI full credit for some units sent to the East Front box in 1943. With all the East Front changes in 1.00.44 and these mostly minor tweaks in 1.00.48, it’s expected that the German player will need to send a significant number of units east periodically during the war as they did historically. This is needed in order to keep the Soviets from scoring significant points for the Allied player and prevent an early end to the game.
2. New Supply Path Rule (section 20.4.1) – During the logistics phase, a supply path cannot be traced out of a sand hex, but it can be traced into a sand hex. Note that supply paths are traced from a supply source to a unit. So if there is a sand hex between a unit and its supply source, the unit will not be getting supplies.
3. Improved the random number generation routine.
4. AI Improvements - Fixed a case of bad Axis AI line forming near Taranto reported in public AAR. Improved Allied AI's ability to capture isolated ports behind their lines Northern Europe in 1944. Improved the Allied AI’s use of support units. It will now try to push more support units (especially combat engineers) down to front line corps and divisions, and will attach the more plentiful US combat engineer units to non-US units when they are available.

• Bug Fixes
1. Allied City Points shown at the top left of the victory screen was incorrectly removing some captured cities from the value as the East Front moved west. As the EF front line moved west it was causing some Allied cities deemed behind the EF line (X column number) as not being captured by the Allies. This was causing some loss of Allied victory points. Fixed.
2. German AI attack creates a battle report that shows no defending units (or men), and lots of attacking German battalions. Fixed.
3. Fixed the Breakout & Pursuit first turn AI script which had stopped working around version 1.00.37.
4. Fixed a rare interface glitch that could occur during creation of a Bomb City Air Directive.


• Data and Scenario Changes

1. Fixes for the two “Fuhrer…” named units in the 43 and 44 Campaign games to ensure both arrive when playing with the East Front option on.
2. 44 Campaigns - Reduced the starting Soviet potential. Increased starting German supply priorities.
3. New ob and ground files and changes to Westwall and Bulge to try to address issues with a lack of US AFVs in the late war scenarios. Added depots to German held isolated ports in Westwall and Bulge.
4. Mortimer von Kessel and Karl von Le Suire added to German leaders.
5. Two revised ground pictures.


V1.00.44 – 9 June 2015

• New Features and Rule Changes

1. Added ability to attach construction units to cities at the cost of 1 AP point per unit. These are attached to cities the same as flak from the City Detail screen. They can be sent back to their HQ at no AP cost by pressing the X next to their name in the City Detail screen. Construction units in cities will automatically attempt to repair factories (including ports and railyards), and repair/expand airbases. Units in cities will be used first, but if deemed insufficient, additional construction units may still be summoned automatically to the hex. Units attached to cities will not be used by the automatic rail repair system.
2. Now all brigade and regiment sized units can attach one support unit. Multi-role units that convert to off-map status will send any attached support unit to the HQ.
3. Added air transfer destination air base resupply code that is immediately activated when an air unit is transferred to an airbase:
- if air base is empty it will assign it to new air hq (based on max aircraft)
- if air base is empty it will try to swap air base nationality
- air base will be resupplied and air support transferred if there is some in the pool. No new air support will be built.
4. Railyard damage was not directly impacting the amount of freight that would be shipped and unloaded at a railyard depot in the hex. Now, there is a percentage chance equal to the railyard damage that the amount shipped to a railyard depot will be divided by 10.
5. An air Group on an isolated air base may not disband.
6. Transferring an air group will send all damaged/reserve planes to the transit air pool. If the air base is isolated they will be destroyed.
7. Interface Adjustment - You can now always access the air base detail screen while in F10 mode by double clicking on an airbase.
8. Formula Adjustment – (Section 14.2.3) the 50 hex range limit for using railyard capacity for movement is changed to a 30 hex limit. Note, the check has always been made from both the starting point and the ending point for a movement of freight or economic goods.
9. Formula Adjustments - East Front Option Changes - Increased German casualties in the East Front box. Germans also now use more fuel/supplies for activities in the East Front box.
10. Formula Adjustments - Section 20.1.7.2 - Significantly increased the attrition to vehicles from resupply operations. Increased both the amount of vehicles damaged and destroyed.
11. Formula Adjustment - Section 21.1.6 - Increased Allied vehicle repair to 50% per turn.
12. Formula Adjustment - Section 21.2.3 – The most that can be repaired per turn by priority repairs is now 20% of the damage (was 25%).
13. Formula Adjustment - Made it easier to cause high amounts of damage to fuel, syn-fuel, and railyards.
14. Formula Adjustment - Reduced the effectiveness of organic (under the hood) airfield radar on intercepts in Africa. It should be harder to effectively intercept raids in Africa due to less developed air defense systems in Africa.
15. Formula Adjustment - The change in 1.00.37 to try minimize warp/rout moves from Africa to non-Africa locations no longer restricts HQs, but it should prevent combat units from making such a move.
16. Formula Adjustment - Improved air mission range calculation in F1 and F9 modes.
17. AI changes
a. German AI is no longer disbanding depots in ports when the enemy gets near them.
b. Fixed a case where the Allied AI came ashore at Taranto and never invaded anywhere again during a campaign 43.
c. German AI isolated unit warps from Corsica to Northern France. Fixed.
d. Fixed several other instances of AI moving isolated units out of pockets (26th Panzer and 2 FJ in Italy).
e. Altered Axis AI so it will be more likely to send some additional units to the Eastern Front in late 43/early 44 and again in late summer 44.
18. Clarification – All level 3 depots should be set up in scenarios with rail access to a national supply source (level 4 depot). Only naval shipments to level 2 ports will show a blue line on the map when using the 8 key as it is assumed that all level 3 depots are receiving their freight via land.
19. Clarification – The morale help level directly impacts the national morale levels. An Allied player with a current USA national morale of 60 and an Allied morale help level of 90 will have an effective USA national morale of 54.

• Bug Fixes
1. FB air group sent for re-training reporting as attached to East Front base. Fixed.
2. Changed circle dots to square dots on metrics screen to avoid crashes on some configurations.
3. It is not possible to delete an air directive after AI turn. Fixed.
4. Several reports of different airbases losing its HQ. Fixed.
5. Fixed airfield and depot automatic repair/expansion as HQs were having the range they would automatically send out repair units reduced.
6. Due to the sequence of actions, destroyed freight in depots was not causing a loss of fuel or supplies in the general pool if those pools were already low. This has been changed so that the correct amount lost will always be taken from the pools.



• Data and Scenario Changes
1. 43 Campaign - Added 100k US, 80k British, 4k Canadian and 2k Brazilian to manpower pools at start.
2. All scenarios now have named pilots.
3. Some new leader and aircraft photos to go with changes/additions made.

Wfdevice.dat
1. 7.92mm vz.24 HMG (0162) – Type changed from Squad Weapon to Heavy Squad Weapon; Accuracy increased from 15 to 750; Anti-armor decreased from 10 to 0; Penetration decreased from 7 to 0.
2. 8mm Schwarzlose HMG (0163) – Type changed from Squad Weapon to Heavy Squad Weapon; Accuracy increased from 15 to 750; Anti-armor decreased from 10 to 0; Penetration decreased from 7 to 0.
3. 8mm Hotchkiss Mle 14 HMG (0164) – Type changed from Squad Weapon to Heavy Squad Weapon; Accuracy increased from 15 to 750; Anti-armor decreased from 10 to 0; Penetration decreased from 7 to 0.
4. 7.92mm ZB53 AAMG (0226) – ROF increased from 40 to 45.
5. 7.92mm vz.37 CMG (0266) – ROF increased from 40 to 45.
6. 7.92mm MG37 (0267) – ROF increased from 40 to 45.
7. 7.92mm vz.37 BMG (0268) – ROF increased from 40 to 45.
8. 7.92mm MG37 BMG (0269) – ROF increased from 40 to 45.
9. 160mm MT-13 Mortar (0409) – Duplicate device eliminated.

Wfground.dat
1. 105mm Field Gun (0222) – Device 0142 facing changed from Fwd to Side.
2. Tauchpanzer IVd (0419) – Device 0262 ammo decreased from 2400 to 1500; Device 0265 added; Side Armor increased from 15 to 20.
3. SdKfz-8 (0422) – Renamed SdKfz-8 Halftrack; Type changed from SP Flak to HT AT-Gun.
4. Matilda II (0662) – Devices 0328 & 0295 facings changed from Fwd to Turret.
5. 107mm Mortar (0729) – Device 0139 facing changed from Fwd to Side.
6. Recce Section (2119) – Device 0148 facing changed from Fwd to Side.
7. Rifle Squad (2657) – Device 0176 facing changed from Fwd to Side.
8. 12in Naval Gun (3524) – Device 1016 facing changed from Fwd to Turret.

Wfac.dat
1. Some camera/drop tank issues fixed on Mosquito recons

Wfleader.dat
1. Several new Allied air leaders.
2. Maitland Wilson available in 11/42 and Horrocks now available in Torch/Africa scenarios.

Wfob.dat
1. Many more ob changes for Torch/Africa scenarios.



V1.00.37 – 7 May 2015

• New Features and Rule Changes

1. Revised Map - Changed terrain in Africa in all scenarios (added some impassable hexes in several areas and new rough and impassable terrain near Tripoli). Renamed bocage terrain to bocage/polder terrain, and added bocage/polder terrain to the Netherlands. Although polder terrain has a different look on the map than bocage terrain, they have the same effects on movement and combat. These terrain changes will only exist in newly started games. Old games will retain the old terrain.
2. New Game Option - Added No Beachhead VP to the game options screen so these may be set by the players. This allows the player to adjust the victory points lost for failing to have the required beachheads as of February 1944 and July 1944. If the cumulative penalty box is checked, then the player can enter VPs lost each turn for each hex less than 10 in the required beachhead. In this case, the penalty becomes the maximum penalty possible for each requirement. The standard penalty is 400 for Feb 44 and 1000 for July 44.
3. New Rule - Isolated units will try to resupply themselves from depots to avoid isolation damage.
4. New Rule - Isolated units are not eligible to be sent to the East Front.
5. New Rule - When the defending force is less than 1 regiment (1 or 2 battalions), the battle is never stopped due to poor odds (i.e. the range will close to minimum range in every battle). The Torch expansion will have some on map battalion sized units.
6. Formula Adjustment - Reduced AFV attrition to units making very long distance moves.
7. Formula Adjustment - Made a change to displacement/rout movement priorities to try to limit rout movement of units from Africa to Europe.
8. Changes to Air game:
a. New Rule - Flights flying from size 1 airfields in poor and average road system hexes with light mud and heavy mud can get canceled. When planes fly from these bases they have higher chances for operational damage.
b. New Rule - Added chance for the extra flight disruption when aircraft gets damaged.
c. New Rule - Added extra damage effect to overloaded air fields that are bombed which increases with size of aircraft (engine number).
d. Formula Adjustment - Made AS interception more coordinated.
e. Formula Adjustment - Adjusted flight detection code.
f. Formula Adjustment - Adjusted AS interception and AS vs AS air combat routines.
g. Formula Adjustment - Added extra flight disruption when damaged by flak fire.
h. Formula Adjustment - Reduced damage done to aircraft on airfields (also increased importance of recon).
i. Formula Adjustment - Enhanced air base replacement code so it would replace evenly based on supply priority.
j. Formula Adjustment - Adjusted air base supply requirements - should check pilot crews available instead of aircraft.
k. Formula Adjustments – Adjusted day and night air combat routines. Slightly reduced damage done during air combat.
l. Formula Adjustment - Removed camera device modifier when calculating default load values.
m. New Interface - Added a pop-up message when air transports are not able to fly freight due to a lack of nearby freight to carry. This will come up after transports are selected and the launch button is pressed. The message will appear instead of a combat window and will state: Not Allowed! – freight shortage at transport air bases. Freight must be either at the base, or able to be moved to the base from depots (using previously unused vehicles if needed).
n. Revised Interface - Removed air execution messages when executing enemy's AD.
o. Increased interception resolution speed on high AD execution detail level.
9. Changes to Navel game (including aircraft created naval interdiction):
a. New Rule - Made fighter naval values reduce total naval interdict values, not only from the auto naval missions as before but also during air superiority flights.
b. New Rule - Naval interdiction can damage amphib HQs.
c. New Rule and Formula Adjustment - Increased interception effect of Amphib HQ. It will add naval interdiction. Both will be reduced when Amphib HQ gets damaged.
d. Formula Adjustment - Slightly increased efficiency for the naval type load out (mines, asw, torpedos).
e. Formula Adjustment - Increased effect of naval radar on naval interdiction.
f. Formula Adjustment - Made harder to generate high naval interdiction values.
g. Formula Adjustments – Adjusted cargo and troop ship losses. Changed naval move attrition formula (done by hex basis). 60% of affected unit personal should get damaged instead of disabled.
h. Interface Changes - Changed text message from "SUNK" to "HIT" when a transport is hit and removed from play. Added messages for men disabled (damaged) and lost (killed).
10. Map art - The hex data art file that sets terrain art is now loading only in editor or when starting a new scenario, so once a game is started, changes in the terrain art will not take place (map text changes will appear in old games as that file still gets loaded with each save).
11. Editor - Added new air group data fields to csv export (air insignia).


• Bug Fixes

1. CTD in air phase due to the big number of flights in single AD. Fixed.
2. An invading unit unable to make it to shore due to over-stacking in the invasion hex warped to a land hex far away. Fixed.
3. Escort planes could be adding to naval interdiction. Fixed.
4. Fixed naval radar assignment.
5. Wrong air doctrine values are used when intercepting by AS flights. Fixed.
6. AS can get canceled when intercepted by auto intercepts. Fixed.
7. Fixed completion of AS flights when attacked by another AS flights.
8. Fixed load out selection for the escorts. It will try to pick DT-only load out.
9. Fixed nationality pool mismatch when replacing Allied air base ground elements.
10. No supplies are being flown in even when the combat window shows up listing planes flying air transport. Fixed.
11. Fixed pilot/plane clearance routine.
12. Fixed 0 plane flights due to the bug in aviation support routine.
13. Planes from inactive air groups (delayed) can show up in losses list (written off planes). Fixed.
14. Fixed Air Superiority battle reports.
15. Airborne unis can be air transported when on rail or ships. Fixed.
16. Fixed a bug where fort units that were frozen were being given movement points when they unfroze.
17. VWeapon/VWweapon-launch counted as AFV in AD target priority screen. Fixed.
18. Flak regiment that has a delay of 989 shows up in rollover. Fixed.
19. Interception can get too big regardless of doctrine settings. Fixed.
20. Fixed Air Directive tab messages during air execution.


• Data and Scenario Changes


1. Added new terrain tiles for terrain changes.
2. Fixed some town spelling issues in the map text (and data) and added some additional map text in Africa.
3. Generic data files adjusted for map changes.
4. Added several new aircraft and leader photos.
5. Added an updated Go145 air icon.
6. Several new British air leaders and minor leader changes.
7. National morale for British ground units now goes up to 65 on Oct 1 1942 instead of Jan 1 1943.
8. OB changes for future Torch scenarios.
9. Scenario Changes:
a. Breakout and Pursuit:
* Allied Airfields on the temporary beach ports are now set to 100% MAX TOE
* Some missing airfield units were added (Witchford, Oakington, Graveley, and Lympne)
* Removed railyard damage in numerous locations in England
b. 1943 Campaign:
* 5th (Pz Grp West) now arrives on Turn 29 (22 January 1944)
* Production Fixes
c. June 44 Campaign - Production fixes
d. May 44 Campaign - Production fixes
e. Westwall - air group changes
f. Bulge - minor changes
10. Wfac.dat changes as listed below:

# Air Profiles #
Both Hungarian profiles - equivalent to Flight is named "Raj"
HU Fighter:
New air group sizes of 4-12-24, valid from 1/1943 (adoption of German-like organization)
HU Bomber:
Reduce default group size from 27 to 18 - 3-sqn groups were not used for a long time
New air group sizes of 4-12-24, valid from 1/1943 (adoption of German-like organization)

x New x
FI Generic
SOV Generic
SOV Fighter
SOV Bomber
SOV Ground Attack


# Aircraft #
All weapon set effects recalculated to take changes to recon cameras into effect
All aircraft exports to Slovakia end in 8/44
Endurance recalculation based on a more economical cruise speed: Ju 87, 88, 188 (all variants)
He 111H-3 and foreign variants - endurance +90 to 475
He 111H-6, H-11, H-16, H-20 and variants - endurance +75 to 445
Ju 88D-1 and variants - max alt + ~500 to 30k

0048 Go 145 - some data changes inclusive speed profile
0211 IAR 38 Rcn - renamed IAR 39 Rcn, adapted to IAR 39 performance stats, available as conversion from IAR 39 in 6/43
0225 Ju 52/3m (HU) - ends 5/44 now (to block imports in later scenarios)
0242 Bf 109G-10/U4(HU) - import -10 to 90 (~10 were G-10/R2 recons, added to G-8)
0247 Bf 109G-8(HU) - import +10 to 22 (~10 G-10/R2 recons)
0252 Bf 110G-4(H) - available some months earlier in 1/44
0257 He 46C (HU) - renamed He 46E-2 (HU), add two fwd MGs, maxspeed +13 to 174, cruise speed +3 to 140
0261 Ju 87D (HU) - ends 10/44 now
0262 Ju 88A-4 (HU) - ends 5/44 now (to block imports in later scenarios)
0263 Ju 88D-1 (HU) - ends 5/44 now (to block imports in later scenarios)
0266 Re.2000 Heja - reduce imports by 20 to 50 (~20 already in Hungary by 6/41)
0269 WM 21 - renamed WM 21 Solyom, production ends in 8/42 now
0279 Bf 109E-3(SL) - available some months earlier in 7/42
0281 Bf 109G-6(SL) - cut imports in half to 15
0287 Fw 189(SL) - ends 3/44
0289 Ju 87D(SL) - reduce imports by 10 to 30
0441 Bf 109G-6/AS - ends two months earlier in 6/44 due to availability of G-14/AS in 7/44
0690 P-47C - change to Fighter-Bomber, add bomb option, add 75 USG drop tank option available in summer 43 and 110 gal DT available in autumn
0691 P-47D-5 - replace 1000lbs bomb by 250lbs bomb - 1000lbs bombs only under wings but not in belly mount (lack of ground clearance)
0692 P-47D-15 - maxload +500 to 3000, some changes to droptank weapon sets
0694 A-36 Apache - upgrade changed to P-51B-1 Mustang (factory-only upgrade, unit upgrade handled by .exe induced path)
Fixed the A20B upgrade

Added more date overlaps to remove usage delays (only extensions shown below), multiple others had their availability date moved forward by a month.
0010 Bf 109G-14 - extended one month to 9/44
0550 Spitfire IX - extended one month to 7/43
0555 Spitfire PR.XI - extended one month to 3/45

x Type change x
0213 IAR 38 - reclassify as recon, upgrades to renamed IAR 39 Rcn

x Slot moves x
0015 Bf 109K-4 - delayed to 1/45, moved to slot 456, replaced by new Bf 109G-14/AS

x New x
0015 Bf 109G-14/AS, G-14 with high alt engine with performance as G-10, available 7/44 with build limit 33, upgrade to new 109K-4 location in 1/45
0271 Do 215B (HU) - Hungarian LR recon version
0272 He 111P (HU) - Hungarian LR recon version
0273 Ju 86K (HU) - K-2 Bomber converted into transport
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Joel Billings
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by Joel Billings »

As you can see by the list there have been a ton of changes since the last official update (1.00.29). Here are some of the major changes you'll find in 1.00.48:

1) The East Front option has been better balanced. We found that the EF option was far too easy on the Germans. Historically a number of units were sent east (late 43, early 44, late summer 44 and finally in early 45). This is now better factored into the balance. German players that take units out of the East Front should suffer, and they should be forced over time to send units east even if they don't pull any out to send west. Ideally, strong units should be sent east, and weaker units should be withdrawn and rebuilt in a depot in the west before redeploying to the front lines or returned to the east. The game with the East Front option on should be a much bigger challenge for the German player than it was before, and closer to the way games play out when not using the East Front option.

2) The importance of railyards has been increased, and the ability of Allied Strategic bombing to hurt the German supply system through bombing railyards and fuel centers has been increased. It is also possible now to assign construction units directly to a city, allowing for more control over repairs as well as new airfield construction.

3) Some tweaks were made to the generic vehicle (trucks) supply attrition system, which should better simulate the German shortage of vehicles. Also reduced the extremely high attrition taken by AFVs that move very long distances.

4) Many tweaks were made to the way Air Superiority and Naval Patrol directives function. Also, amphib HQ units will provide more protection against enemy naval patrols, while having their capabilities reduced as they take damage.

5) Reduced the losses suffered by troops when moving at sea (less chance of transports hit, and less men lost when they are hit).

6) Added the No Beachhead VP as a game option for players that want to adjust or eliminate the method and reason for points being lost when the Allies don't create sufficient Beachheads.

7) New air transfer resupply routines were added that make it easier to transfer aircraft to a base and have the aircraft able to function on the transfer turn.


Many of these items were available in public beta versions for several months. We feel these changes continue to move the game forward and look forward to hearing feedback on the changes.
All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard
Mac Linehan
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by Mac Linehan »

Ms. Danielle and Joel-

I am very appreciative of the efforts 2by3 has made to support this awesome game; and am confident that WitW will continue to mature and improve.

Thank You all for your hard work and outstanding support.

Mac
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whoofe
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by whoofe »

thanks! been waiting for this patch :)
MechFO
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by MechFO »

Now that EF box has been looked at can interdiction losses also get a passover.

The ridiculousness of thousands killed and hundreds of AFV^s destroyed by interdiction needs to stop. Those losses should be mostly disruption and some damaged. It's the follow on ground attacks (if any) on disrupted formations that should be causing losses, not the air attacks themselves.
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Helpless
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by Helpless »

Do you speak about interdiction hex values or unit bombing? There are some verbal reports on too efficient rockets, but so far I've got no save to prove it right.
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MechFO
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by MechFO »

I'm mainly talking about the interdiction results. I haven't seen unit bombing much.

Take medium to high interdiction values hexes and move some units around in them:

-> massive kill and damage losses, where it should mostly be disruption (fatigue), some damage (low at medium interdiction levels) and supply/ammo losses.
chaos45
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by chaos45 »

One of the issues with interdiction is the week long turns.

Basically after the initial movements to normandy the Germans stopped doing movements during the day due to airpower.

Game needs an option to limit German movement by say half- because of only moving at night but removes allied interdiction penalties.
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by HMSWarspite »

ORIGINAL: chaos45

One of the issues with interdiction is the week long turns.

Basically after the initial movements to normandy the Germans stopped doing movements during the day due to airpower.

Game needs an option to limit German movement by say half- because of only moving at night but removes allied interdiction penalties.

You are kidding right? This would nerf the allied AF completely and mean invasions get bottled more easily. And there are many many issues:
a)night is a variable portion of the day, nowhere near 50% in summer (round northern France, night is about 6 hrs in June)
b)you cant move as fast at night as day, so movement would need to be less than pro-rata
c) Interdiction is shooting at things you can see, but they would not routinely take ordnance home. At the end of a sweep, you would take out a small bridge, or whatever, hindering movement for hours after (and that ignores seeing a parked up unit).

And also doesn't reflect 'forced' movement. Retreats and reserve commitment would need to be exempt from your rule.

I would need to research real data, but I would think a single hex move might reflect a 'free' stealthy night move that should be better off under interdiction in Normandy.

I agree that losses should be tempered and be mostly disruption/damaged though.
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LiquidSky
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by LiquidSky »

Losses to interdiction are mostly damaged and disrupted. And because of that...the Germans won't move far in it (by choice). If they do they will be weak, unable to attack and ripe for the allies to push back and maybe even rout.

As well the damage to the Germans trucks will leave most of their units near half movement.

There is a difference between reading patch notes and actually playing the game.
“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great
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Helpless
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by Helpless »

There is a difference between reading patch notes and actually playing the game.

:)
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chaos45
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by chaos45 »

just figured it would generate some discussion as I have seen alot of complaining about how effective interdiction is in the game.

The Germans did switch alot of their supply movements and unit re-locations to night movements though due to how bad Jabo attacks were.

If you read alot of history many units took a fair amount of damage/disruption getting to Normandy but after they got to their positions it was as bad....aside from no replacements really arriving from Germany and ordnance eventually starting to run out as stockpiles were used up since not much made it over french rail network.

Even if you read Falaise reports it was the first time the Jabos had really seen a target rich environment in awhile.

A one hex move dropping the effects of interdiction to a minimum would be an effective compromise.
carlkay58
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by carlkay58 »

chaos45 - there was also a lot of complaining about how effective interdiction was during the war by the German soldiers. :)
MechFO
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RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by MechFO »

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky

Losses to interdiction are mostly damaged and disrupted. And because of that...the Germans won't move far in it (by choice). If they do they will be weak, unable to attack and ripe for the allies to push back and maybe even rout.

Losses caused by medium interdiction is mostly damaged elements with some outright killed and little disruption (which would be fatigue). Heavy interdiction causes some fatigue but far more damage.

damage->fatigue->destroyed should be fatigue->damage->destroyed

Due to the way damaged elements are handled by the engine, the amount of total losses is extremely high. 30% damaged elements of a division (easily achieved by going through 2-3 high interdiction hexes) means several thousand dead and wounded caused by travelling a few ten kilometres in France of a period of a week. The Allies might have managed to inflict something like that in certain select areas through air interdiction alone, but not simultaneously over a significant % of France.
ORIGINAL: LiquidSky
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MechFO
Posts: 767
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:06 am

RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by MechFO »

ORIGINAL: HMSWarspite

One of the issues with interdiction is the week long turns.

Basically after the initial movements to normandy the Germans stopped doing movements during the day due to airpower.

Game needs an option to limit German movement by say half- because of only moving at night but removes allied interdiction penalties.

None of the real reinforcements of Normandy would have arrived as anything approaching combat capable units if the current interdiction routine were to in any way reflect reality.

The problem with bottling too easily is arguably due to some defence multipliers which are too high. Instead of linear multipliers, decreasing gains from higher field fort levels (1-3) might be an idea. Alternative, maybe better, is to slow down build rate for level 2 forts, so that forts that get knocked down stay down if the attacked is sustained over several turns.

ORIGINAL: HMSWarspite
c) Interdiction is shooting at things you can see, but they would not routinely take ordnance home. At the end of a sweep, you would take out a small bridge, or whatever, hindering movement for hours after (and that ignores seeing a parked up unit).

Interdiction levels should be influencing MP cost for movement, with increased MP cost for motorized units.
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KWG
Posts: 1249
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:45 pm

RE: War in the West has been updated to version 1.00.48!

Post by KWG »

High Interdiction numbers - lots of aircraft have been flying around... so everyone hides, few targets, no damage/destroyed, maybe no disruption. Yet it cost more to move through because you are constantly stopping to hide. Damage/destruction/disruption to ground target still possible if unit is moving, and stopping to hide ground forces can still be seen while they are hiding.

Low Interdiction numbers - few aircraft have been flying around so there is ground activity, movement cost low... BAM out of no where 2 Allied aircraft swoop down ... massive damage/destruction/disruption to ground targets.

So it seems there is a chance Low Interdiction numbers could produce as much or more damage/destruction/disruption than High Interdiction numbers, but allow less cost ground movement. While High Interdiction could produce low or no damage/destruction/disruption, but create high ground movement cost.

Disruption/Damaged/Destroyed - as woven fibers of lethality.

Does Interdiction number = "number of aircraft" or "level of lethality" or "hindrance to movement"

How do you say all that in C++ ?
"A word was said - a mare is standing by the fence."
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