TGW scenario

Norm Koger's The Operational Art of War III is the next game in the award-winning Operational Art of War game series. TOAW3 is updated and enhanced version of the TOAW: Century of Warfare game series. TOAW3 is a turn based game covering operational warfare from 1850-2015. Game scale is from 2.5km to 50km and half day to full week turns. TOAW3 scenarios have been designed by over 70 designers and included over 130 scenarios. TOAW3 comes complete with a full game editor.

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Meyer1
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TGW scenario

Post by Meyer1 »

Question for Steve/sPzAbt653:

Was gonna try this one, is the 1.8 your latest version? (I noticed that the patch did not include the D21's latest)
Looking at the OOB, I notice that the JG-27 unit is equipped with Bf-110 "Zerstörer", which, historically is not correct. Is this a mistake or a "feature"?
Thanks.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Yes, 1.8 is the latest.

JG-27 - Niehorster lists it with Bf-110, WW2.dk lists it with Bf-109. What is a sPzAbt to do ?
Meyer1
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by Meyer1 »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Yes, 1.8 is the latest.

JG-27 - Niehorster lists it with Bf-110, WW2.dk lists it with Bf-109. What is a sPzAbt to do ?


Really? Should be a typo on part of Niehorster. JG 27 was always a fighter unit (Marseille served there f.e.), never used Bf-110.

Thanks, starting the war right now [:D]
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sPzAbt653
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Here is a clue from the well of knowledge [Wiki]:

Just 51 air worthy Bf 110s took part in the initial rounds of Operation Barbarossa, and all were from three units; ZG 26, Skg 210 and ZG 76.

Maybe we'll do a v1.9 and change JG-27 from Bf-110 to Bf-109.
Meyer1
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by Meyer1 »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Here is a clue from the well of knowledge [Wiki]:

Just 51 air worthy Bf 110s took part in the initial rounds of Operation Barbarossa, and all were from three units; ZG 26, Skg 210 and ZG 76.

Yeah I don't know about that, 51 is exactly the number for serviceable 110's in just one unit, ZG 26 (see below)
Maybe we'll do a v1.9 and change JG-27 from Bf-110 to Bf-109.

Here's a good source for LW OOB's

http://www.oocities.org/sturmvogel_66/LWJul42.html
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sPzAbt653
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I wondered what happened to Sturmvogel [:(]

Yeah, every source has different numbers. I think I read somewhere that this is because most of the good records were destroyed.
Cmdr_Vessery
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by Cmdr_Vessery »

FYI - This is a great scenario. I started a new game the other day as well.

Enjoy.

-Vess
Meyer1
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by Meyer1 »

I'm changing the JG 27 110's for 109's... man that takes a lot of clicks... is there any editor that would make that job easier?
Also, can't seem to change the authorized number for that unit, help please.

Thanks.

Edit: nevermind, found the way to change authorized numbers.
Meyer1
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by Meyer1 »

ORIGINAL: Cmdr_Vessery

FYI - This is a great scenario. I started a new game the other day as well.

Enjoy.

-Vess


Yeah, looks like it. I really like the OOB/forces structure, regardless the effect on the gameplay, makes the job of moving hundreds of counters a lot easier.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I'm changing the JG 27 110's for 109's... man that takes a lot of clicks...

Find a unit that has only 109's > Hit 'G' on the keyboard > Select the target unit > Hit 'A' on the keyboard. Now you have 109's in the target unit, and need to scroll to the 109's in the Equipment Inventory in order to change the Authorized.

Or, scroll to the Aircraft in the Inventory first, add 109's, then delete the 110's. It's really quite simple [;)]
Meyer1
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by Meyer1 »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
I'm changing the JG 27 110's for 109's... man that takes a lot of clicks...

Find a unit that has only 109's > Hit 'G' on the keyboard > Select the target unit > Hit 'A' on the keyboard. Now you have 109's in the target unit, and need to scroll to the 109's in the Equipment Inventory in order to change the Authorized.

Or, scroll to the Aircraft in the Inventory first, add 109's, then delete the 110's. It's really quite simple [;)]


Well, that was a lot easier [:)]

Thanks,
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sPzAbt653
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Looking over the Sturmvogel link you provided, listed are 117 'servicable' on the East Front on 6-22. Looking at the I&R in TGW I've got 400.

Seems like I maybe should make some adjustments. [:@]
Meyer1
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by Meyer1 »

Yeah, I thought about change the air OOB to adjust it to those numbers, but was hesitant that that would change the "balance".
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I have the impression that the air units did not receive the same attention regarding the withdrawing of units to other theaters, new units, and that kind of things, so it wouldn't make much sense to adjust the initial air OOB down to the smallest detail.
Meyer1
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by Meyer1 »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Looking over the Sturmvogel link you provided, listed are 117 'servicable' on the East Front on 6-22. Looking at the I&R in TGW I've got 400.

Seems like I maybe should make some adjustments. [:@]

Note that those numbers are good for June 24th, so maybe it would be more accurate for the start of Barbarossa to use the total figures or round it close to the authorized strength.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I have the impression that the air units did not receive the same attention regarding the withdrawing of units to other theaters, new units, and that kind of things,

They did but the groups were swapped around a lot, so anything you see that may seem abnormal can be attributed to making the best of a messy situation. The overall concern would be the end of game numbers. If at the end of the scenario the Losses and On Hand are out of whack then some possible adjustments should be looked into.
Meyer1
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by Meyer1 »

Hey Steve, just got my Panzer division to this marsh hex, coming from the badlands/ligh woods road to the south. Now, I can't move it out of there. According to the manual, motorized unis shouldn't move through badlands hexes, I wonder if this is related to the engineering capabilities of the Panzer units in the TGW scenario?

Did I lose my precious 8. Panzer division?

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sPzAbt653
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Is that hex 62,28 ?

It's not the engineering, its the weirdness that we can move from a road hex but not back into the road hex in some cases. Sorry I didn't notice that when doing the map, I do keep an eye on that kind of silliness. I'll fix it for v.10.

Meanwhile, only thing you can do is disband the 8th Pz and hope it doesn't regenerate in that same hex.
Cmdr_Vessery
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by Cmdr_Vessery »

ORIGINAL: Meyer1

Hey Steve, just got my Panzer division to this marsh hex, coming from the badlands/ligh woods road to the south. Now, I can't move it out of there. According to the manual, motorized unis shouldn't move through badlands hexes, I wonder if this is related to the engineering capabilities of the Panzer units in the TGW scenario?

Did I lose my precious 8. Panzer division?

Image


Dude, first rule of mobile operations, never,never, drive your tanks in the badlands... Leave the Russians sit in that crappy landscape and be out of supply.. bummer.. Also, watch for impassable terrain west of Moscow..

I used Mountain troops if I had to move into the badlands hexes. With mountain troops, I found that I could get back out to a supplied hex with full movement at the start of moving into the badland hex.

Have you waited a turn to get full movement points and try to get back to the road hex?


-Vess
Meyer1
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by Meyer1 »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Is that hex 62,28 ?

Yep, that's the one.
It's not the engineering, its the weirdness that we can move from a road hex but not back into the road hex in some cases. Sorry I didn't notice that when doing the map, I do keep an eye on that kind of silliness. I'll fix it for v.10.

Meanwhile, only thing you can do is disband the 8th Pz and hope it doesn't regenerate in that same hex.

Thanks for the explanation. And don't worry, I was dramatizing a little for effect, I have a save to replay and avoid that [:)]



Meyer1
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RE: TGW scenario

Post by Meyer1 »

ORIGINAL: Cmdr_Vessery




Dude, first rule of mobile operations, never,never, drive your tanks in the badlands... Leave the Russians sit in that crappy landscape and be out of supply.. bummer.. Also, watch for impassable terrain west of Moscow..

Actually, that is not my problem, what happened was that I had the entire 4.Panzergruppe resting back near Riga or something to resupply, and when moving it back to the front, used that Pz. Division to broke the front there where I was having little forces. So, got a litle carried away RBCing a soviet RD.. didn't realize that I wouldn't be able to get it back.
And that in fact is the weakness of my playing, I hate the red dot on the counters so I'm not pushing my units hard enough. And in TOAW unit with 1% of supply are pretty useful. Hope that gets fixed in IV.



Have you waited a turn to get full movement points and try to get back to the road hex?

Yes, it's a new turn, all movement points available but can't move it in any direction.


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