a complete graphics and interface overhaul

[sPzAbt653]

The subject, as stated by Daniele in the release info for TOAW IV.

This has me concerned and since '76mm' and 'Meyer1' already had some thoughts I thought to open a new thread.

First to clarify, I have no control over any of this so please don't take anything said by me as a 'promise'. I know most don't need this to be said but a few do.

While improvements are great I am concerned that Matrix is interested in attracting the younger crowd, and that is scary for old timers like me. I don't want colorful icons dancing about my TOAW screen. I know Matrix knows far more about marketing than I do, but I like TOAW clean, cold and professional. I don't think any youngsters interested in more advanced avenues of gaming are going to be swayed by puffy pastel icons.

So, as Matrix has a desire to do a complete overhaul to graphics and interface, its a good idea for those of us that it matters to have some input. Regardless of who is in BETA or Development, what is said here is heard.

So I'll start with the others comments and I'll make a few comments of my own:

[Meyer1]

Perhaps this should be moved/duplicate in the new forum? Just a thought.

I don't have a problem with the TOAW graphics, love the counters, I like the PNG graphics better than classics (sorry [:'(]) but they can be changed anyway so...
Regarding the interface, I repeat what i said in the other thread:

Well, off the top of my head, some easy improvements to the current interface:
-a hotkey to select next formation
-I would use the tool tip if there were a key to activate/deactivate. Currently is very annoying

More complicate:
-a "supply mode" for the map, which would be handy to see how supply flows and to detect destroyed bridges/rail lines
-A possibility to assign keys to highlight "user made formations" with a given colour, to allow the player to modify the OOB, even if that has no effect in the gameplay. As explained here tm.asp?m=2849586
-OOB screen should be vastly improve, allowing to sort units according type/strength/special abilities/etc. I think this is already in the plans, right?

Also:
-A unit panel on the side, showing the selected unit info, but all of it, as one have using the "u" key.
-A "full screen" mode for the map, and/or the chance to "minimize" different panels of the rest of the interface
-A full screen mode for the game, alongside the windowed mode as we have now.

Now, before advancing with suggestions would be nice to know how advanced "TOAW IV" is, what can be changed and what is written in stone.

[sPzAbt653]

-a hotkey to select next formation

There is the Next Formation button in the upper right. I like having more hotkeys though, if they can be worked in.

-I would use the tool tip if there were a key to activate/deactivate. Currently is very annoying

I don't use it so I have no input on it. Probably I've been playing it so long I don't need this feature, but it seems to me that everything I need is displayed at the bottom of the screen.

-a "supply mode" for the map, which would be handy to see how supply flows and to detect destroyed bridges/rail lines

Also an option in the upper right buttons, choose Supply View = Trace. This shows the base supply levels for each hex.

More ...

[Meyer1]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653





Also an option in the upper right buttons, choose Supply View = Trace. This shows the base supply levels for each hex.

More ...

yes but only for the hexes next to units.

I don't use it so I have no input on it. Probably I've been playing it so long I don't need this feature, but it seems to me that everything I need is displayed at the bottom of the screen.

Yeah well the tooltip is useful but only because playing at bigger resolutions (2560x1440 here) the text is too small. I'm sure this won't be a problem with the new game.

[rixtertech]

The older I get the more I appreciate a good UI. TOAW has great looking maps but the UI and basically all text causes a lot of eye strain no matter how much time you spend tweaking it. I for one welcome our new UI galactic overlords.

[sPzAbt653]

-A possibility to assign keys to highlight "user made formations" with a given colour, to allow the player to modify the OOB, even if that has no effect in the gameplay. As explained here tm.asp?m=2849586

That's an interesting one. Currently there is a possible conflict with the editor, but if Ralph could figure out how to make it separate and purely graphical that would be cool.

-OOB screen should be vastly improve, allowing to sort units according type/strength/special abilities/etc. I think this is already in the plans, right?

Yes, that has been leaked already. [:)]

-A unit panel on the side, showing the selected unit info, but all of it, as one have using the "u" key.

Is there any room anywhere for all of that ?

-A "full screen" mode for the map, and/or the chance to "minimize" different panels of the rest of the interface

I don't get it. I mean, there are only four panels on the right, they take up little space and seem to be important. And there are different zoom levels for the map.

-A full screen mode for the game, alongside the windowed mode as we have now.

I don't get this one either, but I guess we all have different screen sizes and resolution settings so maybe its a good idea, I don't know.

And I'm not criticizing any ideas, I'm just having a conversation. The main point is to get some thoughts out there while we all have a chance to have some input.

[Meyer1]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Is there any room anywhere for all of that ?

There's plenty of room over and under the "death star", at least at high res. Ideally, this unit panel (and others) could be minimized so...

I don't get it. I mean, there are only four panels on the right, they take up little space and seem to be important. And there are different zoom levels for the map.

I don't get this one either, but I guess we all have different screen sizes and resolution settings so maybe its a good idea, I don't know.

I like having as much map as possible at sight [:)]

And I'm not criticizing any ideas, I'm just having a conversation. The main point is to get some thoughts out there while we all have a chance to have some input.

Of course, no worries.


EDIT: attached capture to show the unused space in my toaw screen

[sPzAbt653]

And from Mr. 76mm:

The worst was the scenario editor--just about everything about
selecting and creating unit hierarchies was a huge pain, especially having to cycle through everything rather than having drop-down boxes or standard windows interfaces (which might not be great, but are generally functional).

Hope you don't mind me quoting you, but its a very valid point. A little complicated is the Editor. They call it Evil for a reason. To start with it was designed over 20 years ago, I think. I have no other game that has an editor, so I don't know if it can be done better because I have nothing to compare it to other than the ODD program. I've never taken the time to learn that ODD thing so I still don't know if its better or not.

The main point is that eventually the Evil Ed is going to be redone. This is no 'promise', it's just an obvious observation on my part. It is inevitable, as they say. We have to hope that somebody comes up with a decent rehash of it. All we can do for now is throw out some possible suggestions.

[76mm]

IIRC, Evil Ed is the event editor? The interface for that is a total nightmare, but I was referring to the basic scenario editor, for just creating units and placing them on the map.

[sPzAbt653]

Now, before advancing with suggestions would be nice to know how advanced "TOAW IV" is, what can be changed and what is written in stone.

Over my position, but based on what Daniele said, there are only a couple months before TOAW IV is released, so it may be a done deal. But if not then we have the chance to be heard. If IV already is in 'stone', Daniele did say that continued development is the plan so what is said here can have some effect. Otherwise, if developers know that our thoughts will have no impact, then I would expect someone to say so, so as not to waste our time.

[sPzAbt653]

-a "supply mode" for the map, which would be handy to see how supply flows and to detect destroyed bridges/rail lines

Also an option in the upper right buttons, choose Supply View = Trace. This shows the base supply levels for each hex.

yes but only for the hexes next to units.

No sir, turn 'No Borders' OFF in the Options Menu [or is it ON?].

... bigger resolutions (2560x1440 here) ...

Good grief man! I'm using 1024 x 768 here! So you see what Matrix has to contend with in making any changes to the UI.

[sPzAbt653]

all text causes a lot of eye strain no matter how much time you spend tweaking it.

I have no idea what can be done to improve this situation. Maybe post some screen shots of games that are easier to see so that others can have an idea and chime in.

Of course, some of us over 40 need glasses and refuse to get them and that is a problem, too. [;)]

[76mm]

I fired up the game for the first time in a few years. In the menu screens for selecting the games:
1) no scroll bars, etc.
2) text very tiny
3) menu buttons very small, have to read small tool-tips to figure out what is what.

There is lots of screen real estate, why not use it? Why not have a big green button that says "PLAY" instead of a tiny button in the middle of the bottom menu?

No huge deals here, but it all gives the game a very dated feel; will post a few comments about the in-game interface shortly.

[sPzAbt653]

There's plenty of room over and under the "death star", at least at high res. Ideally, this unit panel (and others) could be minimized so...

Yeah, but different resolutions use different death star space, so that might not be possible.

Maybe the Unit Display at the upper right could be slightly expanded ?

I like having as much map as possible at sight

You've got 2560 x 1440 and you want MORE ?? Seriously though, what if there were more zoom choices [other than the three currently available] ? I mean, I think you can get to a certain point where you get a lot of map, but its not really playable because the units are too small.

[Meyer1]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653


No sir, turn 'No Borders' OFF in the Options Menu [or is it ON?].

Yeah, ok, but this conflicts with fow realism.. anyway is no biggie. I would take instead some highlight button, showing rail lines and broken bridges.

Good grief man! I'm using 1024 x 768 here! So you see what Matrix has to contend with in making any changes to the UI.

1024x768? this so like... a couple of years ago [:D]


Anyway, looking at Daniele's post, specially this part, I would say not many things could be changed at this point

The Operational Art of War IV will fully support modern computer hardware and operating systems. This will make it more user-friendly and able to scale to higher resolutions, especially in terms of font and button size. It reorganizes and adds functionality to many very useful screens and dialogs to make them more informative and easier to use.

[sPzAbt653]

Here is my unused space [:(]

[Meyer1]

Hmm sorry, I replied before you edited the post.

Regarding the screen resolution, I want to have the option to see as much map as possible. That won't change the unit size. Then you have the zoom too.

[Meyer1]

Here is my unused space

Sorry. But at least you could read the font with no problems.. I use a fix magnifier on top of the unit panel to see at least that clearly. And of course, only can play at "huge 2d" setting.

[Meyer1]

Wel I'm not worried at the font size and high res, I'm sure that will be fine. But I think we are dreaming here, I don't think things are gonna be much different.

[sPzAbt653]

referring to the basic scenario editor, for just creating units and placing them on the map.

Yeah, very intimidating, its DOS based so ...

My personal problem in relating is that I've been using it almost daily for years, so if it gets changed to pop-ups and drop downs that is when I get frustrated. But, in my opinion, the initial frustration comes from unfamiliarity and I feel that any attempt to 'overhaul' it will just make it unfamiliar for everybody. I mean, its a complicated thing designing OOB's correctly and it takes time no matter how the input is done.

I have planned to make some [hopefully] helpful videos.