BBC: What does it take to restore a World War Two Spitfire?
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: BBC: What does it take to restore a World War Two Spitfire?
There is a documentary about rebuilding that plane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Zebpu2nS4
From watching the program, I would say the plane wasn't so much restored as rebuilt from scratch. If there is anything of the original plane in the flyable plane, it isn't much.
There is a growing market for authentic replicas. There are some guys in Everett, WA who were contracted by the Marine Corps to restore their Me-262 for display. While they were at it, they made a complete set of drawings and have built a number of authentic replicas. The only major differences are some modern electronics (like radios) and they used GE engines because the old Jumos were not reliable enough.
Somebody else has done the same thing with Fw-190s in Germany. I believe they are using a Chinese copy of the BMW engine which was built for many years after the war.
This is the only Spitfire I know of that was built/rebuilt this way.
Bill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Zebpu2nS4
From watching the program, I would say the plane wasn't so much restored as rebuilt from scratch. If there is anything of the original plane in the flyable plane, it isn't much.
There is a growing market for authentic replicas. There are some guys in Everett, WA who were contracted by the Marine Corps to restore their Me-262 for display. While they were at it, they made a complete set of drawings and have built a number of authentic replicas. The only major differences are some modern electronics (like radios) and they used GE engines because the old Jumos were not reliable enough.
Somebody else has done the same thing with Fw-190s in Germany. I believe they are using a Chinese copy of the BMW engine which was built for many years after the war.
This is the only Spitfire I know of that was built/rebuilt this way.
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
RE: BBC: What does it take to restore a World War Two Spitfire?
Nice!!! The film was great. Thanks all around. I've one question for Bill though. What language was Mr. Martin speaking?[:D] Think I got about every third word.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: BBC: What does it take to restore a World War Two Spitfire?
I'm not an expert on the accents of the British Isles, but I think he's from northern England near the border with Scotland. It is pretty thick.
Bill
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
RE: BBC: What does it take to restore a World War Two Spitfire?
Guy Martin
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Martin
speaks perfectly good English, and is nowhere near Scotland, lol. Accents in England can vary within miles of each other. Grimsby is at the same level as Liverpool but on the opposite coast. Both are North of England but two accents have never been farther apart! I come from Yorkshire and his accent is very similar to mine. It is not the Queens English that holliwood portrays so often in movies. Think Game Of Thrones and how all people from the "North" speak and that's where he's at:)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Martin
speaks perfectly good English, and is nowhere near Scotland, lol. Accents in England can vary within miles of each other. Grimsby is at the same level as Liverpool but on the opposite coast. Both are North of England but two accents have never been farther apart! I come from Yorkshire and his accent is very similar to mine. It is not the Queens English that holliwood portrays so often in movies. Think Game Of Thrones and how all people from the "North" speak and that's where he's at:)
RE: BBC: What does it take to restore a World War Two Spitfire?
I had to look up Yorkshire to be certain, it looks like there are a couple of counties closer to Scotland, but I think North Americans think on much larger scales. To my mind, Yorkshire is up near the border with Scotland, but then a 180 mile drive to Seattle is no big deal to people in this part of the world.
Some accents in English can be tough for Americans to penetrate. We have a lot less regional variation than in the British Isles, especially as you move westward. I grew up in Los Angeles, but the locals here in Portland can't tell I'm not from around here. I've also been told I sound like I'm from Michigan, which is a state I've never been to. I heard a British linguist point out that English accents vary less regionally the further you get from England and Northern/Western American English has the least stressed vowel sounds of any English dialect.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification,
Bill
Some accents in English can be tough for Americans to penetrate. We have a lot less regional variation than in the British Isles, especially as you move westward. I grew up in Los Angeles, but the locals here in Portland can't tell I'm not from around here. I've also been told I sound like I'm from Michigan, which is a state I've never been to. I heard a British linguist point out that English accents vary less regionally the further you get from England and Northern/Western American English has the least stressed vowel sounds of any English dialect.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification,
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
RE: BBC: What does it take to restore a World War Two Spitfire?
When I got to basic training we had a young man from Georgia in my unit. Didn't understand a word he said 'til about the last week of training. I then went to MA, cab ride Logan Airport to bus terminal. Cabby spoke the whole way. Thick Bostonian accent, thought I was in another country. Me, well you can see where I live. If we meet I'll say about three words, and your immediate response will be, NY.[:D]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: BBC: What does it take to restore a World War Two Spitfire?
ORIGINAL: wdolson
There is a documentary about rebuilding that plane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Zebpu2nS4
From watching the program, I would say the plane wasn't so much restored as rebuilt from scratch. If there is anything of the original plane in the flyable plane, it isn't much.
There is a growing market for authentic replicas. There are some guys in Everett, WA who were contracted by the Marine Corps to restore their Me-262 for display. While they were at it, they made a complete set of drawings and have built a number of authentic replicas. The only major differences are some modern electronics (like radios) and they used GE engines because the old Jumos were not reliable enough.
Somebody else has done the same thing with Fw-190s in Germany. I believe they are using a Chinese copy of the BMW engine which was built for many years after the war.
This is the only Spitfire I know of that was built/rebuilt this way.
Bill
The USMC wanted to restore their ME-262 for display?!?
In WWI I could see the USMC bagging some German planes, but I didn't know the Marine Corps (other than the small detachments they have on some of the larger ships) did much in the ETO in WW II.
How did they get a Swallow?
Bill Goin
RE: BBC: What does it take to restore a World War Two Spitfire?
A handful of Me-262s were brought back to the US for evaluation after the war. When they were done testing, the Army/Air Force, Navy, and Smithsonian got all but one which went to museums. The one that fell into civilian hands was bought by Howard Hughes who planned to race it in 1947. The Air Force was entering the F-80 in the same race and knew from tests the Me-262 was faster so they convinced Hughes to back out of the race. The Planes of Fame in Chino, CA got the Me-262 from Hughes where it was on display until around 1990. The USMC museum traded Planes of Fame some of their spares for the Me-262.
The 262 was in decent condition when the USMC got it, but it was not as well restored as those in other museums, so they paid the guys in Everett to restore it to the same standard as the USAF and USN museum pieces.
All the Me-262s that fell into US hands were captured by Western Allied land forces at the end of the war. I'm not sure they were all captured by the US Army, I know the British did some horse trading of captured planes with the US. The French got some too. I know they had a couple of He-177s they evaluated and they kept one or two flying for a few years after the war.
Bill
The 262 was in decent condition when the USMC got it, but it was not as well restored as those in other museums, so they paid the guys in Everett to restore it to the same standard as the USAF and USN museum pieces.
All the Me-262s that fell into US hands were captured by Western Allied land forces at the end of the war. I'm not sure they were all captured by the US Army, I know the British did some horse trading of captured planes with the US. The French got some too. I know they had a couple of He-177s they evaluated and they kept one or two flying for a few years after the war.
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
RE: BBC: What does it take to restore a World War Two Spitfire?
Oh, I dunno ... it happened from time to time here (in Australia) in the 1980s that stories from the Deep South (USA) on the nightly news came with subtitles so that we Aussies could understand not just the subjects, but the Interviewers!
(Of course, these were the occasional 'breaking news' stories where local stations were being picked up first, rather than translated through major US networks ... )
Ah. Pre-internet days!
Phil
(Of course, these were the occasional 'breaking news' stories where local stations were being picked up first, rather than translated through major US networks ... )
Ah. Pre-internet days!
Phil
Author, Space Opera (FGU); RBB #1 (FASA); Road to Armageddon; Farm, Forge and Steam; Orbis Mundi; Displaced (PGD)
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Email: aspqrz@tpg.com.au
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Email: aspqrz@tpg.com.au
RE: BBC: What does it take to restore a World War Two Spitfire?
ORIGINAL: wdolson
A handful of Me-262s were brought back to the US for evaluation after the war. When they were done testing, the Army/Air Force, Navy, and Smithsonian got all but one which went to museums. The one that fell into civilian hands was bought by Howard Hughes who planned to race it in 1947. The Air Force was entering the F-80 in the same race and knew from tests the Me-262 was faster so they convinced Hughes to back out of the race. The Planes of Fame in Chino, CA got the Me-262 from Hughes where it was on display until around 1990. The USMC museum traded Planes of Fame some of their spares for the Me-262.
The 262 was in decent condition when the USMC got it, but it was not as well restored as those in other museums, so they paid the guys in Everett to restore it to the same standard as the USAF and USN museum pieces.
All the Me-262s that fell into US hands were captured by Western Allied land forces at the end of the war. I'm not sure they were all captured by the US Army, I know the British did some horse trading of captured planes with the US. The French got some too. I know they had a couple of He-177s they evaluated and they kept one or two flying for a few years after the war.
Bill
Thanks. That makes sense.
Bill Goin