Rumble in the Southwest witpqs-A vs Andav-J 2011-11-29 to 2017-02-08

[Lowpe]

Is that the Washington next to the Carriers?

You should have taken Groot with something and disbanded there. One AR, and you would have been able to save that ship.

[witpqs]

That is Washington next to the carriers.

I don't think I would want to invest all that to save the ship. A size 0 port does not help, and the other ships in the TF would no longer help, so it would be on the AR to help out. And by the time I got all that done everybody would still be 8 hexes from ~500 LBA at Singapore. Not to mention any DD available able to make the run at full speed for night surface actions, which are always dicey.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

That is Washington next to the carriers.

I don't think I would want to invest all that to save the ship. A size 0 port does not help, and the other ships in the TF would no longer help, so it would be on the AR to help out. And by the time I got all that done everybody would still be 8 hexes from ~500 LBA at Singapore. Not to mention any DD available able to make the run at full speed for night surface actions, which are always dicey.

If a lot of the flooding is counter flooding so to speak (not major damage) then the AR would help pump it out very quickly.

But here is an excellent viewpoint of how JFBs look at the game and AFBs. I would move heaven and earth to try and save a BB.

[BBfanboy]

I think it is not so much writing off the BB without great efforts as it is needing all the other forces at his disposal to support the Indochina Ops with supplies/reinforcements/new air units/fuel. Time is critical for virtually every line of advance he has going if he is to keep the Japanese off-balance. Can't let the land war bog down.

[witpqs]

1944 July 18

The Empire captured:


The Allies captured:
Ubon

There were Imperial amphibious or airborne operations at:


There were Allied amphibious or airborne operations at:
Pagan


Naval Bombardments

Allied Ships Bombarding Mergui
Allied Ships Bombarding Pagan

Our subs had a day off.

Quiet in China.

Our armour made it into Pisanuloke in time to stop strategic movement out. The attack at Mergui went well, kicked off by royal battleships. I think (some of?) the defenders were in move mode there.

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Night Naval bombardment of Mergui at 53,62

Allied Ships
BB Queen Elizabeth
BB Valiant

Japanese ground losses:
102 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 11
Port hits 2
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 2

BB Queen Elizabeth firing at 2nd INA Gandhi Regiment
BB Valiant firing at Mergui


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Ground combat at Mergui (53,62)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 15008 troops, 262 guns, 349 vehicles, Assault Value = 479

Defending force 7831 troops, 90 guns, 11 vehicles, Assault Value = 162

Allied adjusted assault: 193

Japanese adjusted defense: 117

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), op mode(-), disruption(-)
preparation(-), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker: fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
627 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 36 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 30 (4 destroyed, 26 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
139 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Cavalry Regiment
4th Burma Battalion
11th PAVO Regiment
26th Indian Division

Defending units:
112th Infantry Regiment
9th Infantry Regiment
2nd INA Gandhi Regiment
8th JAAF AF Coy
91st JAAF AF Bn
8th Field Construction Battalion
211th Ship Eng Coy
311th Ship Eng Coy
9th JAAF AF Coy


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Ground combat at Pisanuloke (58,57)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 2135 troops, 0 guns, 288 vehicles, Assault Value = 166

Defending force 9947 troops, 94 guns, 72 vehicles, Assault Value = 237

Allied adjusted assault: 155

Japanese adjusted defense: 94

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), op mode(-), preparation(-), fatigue(-), morale(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
154 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 24 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
143 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 13 (1 destroyed, 12 disabled)

Assaulting units:
150th RAC Regiment
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
Gardner's Horse Regiment

Defending units:
4th RTA Division
3rd RTA Division
I./143rd Infantry Battalion
2nd RTA/C Division
Burma Area Army
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade


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The armour that crossed into Pisanuloke is enough to stop further crossing-shock attacks, so the 2nd British Div will stay in move mode and arrive tomorrow.

Ubon is ours and the 5th Tank Rgt was shattered.

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Ground combat at Ubon (62,63)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 1248 troops, 6 guns, 212 vehicles, Assault Value = 119

Defending force 348 troops, 0 guns, 70 vehicles, Assault Value = 30

Allied adjusted assault: 64

Japanese adjusted defense: 13

Allied assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Ubon !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), disruption(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 62 (62 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 1

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
775th Tank Battalion
640th Tank Destroyer Battalion

Defending units:
5th Tank Regiment


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Both units will pursue, leaving Ubon empty until others catch up. First attack at Phnom Penh tomorrow. Two Arm Rgt and one Inf Bde have made contact again just SW of Tourane and will attack tomorrow. Also, 2/11th Armoured Car Rgt will attack that support unit SE of Pakse.

Kamikazes made attacks on the USN fleet guarding BB Washington but all were destroyed by CAP. 97% flotation damage for Washington.

Recon of Tokyo continues finding additional damage. There are now 101 fighters at Tokyo!

[witpqs]

Added to strategic points.

[witpqs]

Indochina. There are approximately 80,000 Imperial troops in the Chiang Mai area.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I think it is not so much writing off the BB without great efforts as it is needing all the other forces at his disposal to support the Indochina Ops with supplies/reinforcements/new air units/fuel. Time is critical for virtually every line of advance he has going if he is to keep the Japanese off-balance. Can't let the land war bog down.

Definitely. Groot Natoena would be just a distraction that required big defense. As it is I have to be careful that the (eventual) invasion of Kuching does not take undue resources. I've been pulling base forces out of the eastern DEI like crazy.

[Rio Bravo]

witpqs-

Interesting reading!

Quite the battle for Indochina.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[witpqs]

Thanks! [:)]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I think it is not so much writing off the BB without great efforts as it is needing all the other forces at his disposal to support the Indochina Ops with supplies/reinforcements/new air units/fuel. Time is critical for virtually every line of advance he has going if he is to keep the Japanese off-balance. Can't let the land war bog down.

Definitely. Groot Natoena would be just a distraction that required big defense. As it is I have to be careful that the (eventual) invasion of Kuching does not take undue resources. I've been pulling base forces out of the eastern DEI like crazy.

Fair enough. [:)]

I see movement arrows at Chiang Mai now.

[cdnice]

I have a question since you seem to have landing nailed. I know that ideally there should be a DMS TF to clear the mines, a SCTF to intercept any raiders, a bombardment TF to soften up the target and then the amphibious force to land the ground troops followed by supply TF and a reserve TF with additional ground troops/support troops. My question is how do you coordinate them all? Are you setting follow orders? I believe I read somewhere that can cause issues. Or is it a matter of staging them over a couple of days (mine sweep/bombardment one day followed by landing)? Or is there some order built into the game where different tasked TF's proceed in a set order (to quote a (in)famous forumite, pretend I didn't read the manual [;)] .

[cdnice]

Oh, and a air cover TF too.......

[witpqs]

First an aside - I don't use a mine sweeping task force anymore for most operations because the defense's guns just sink them all! I put mine sweeping assets in the invasion TFs instead. That does mean the minefields are around longer and have to be swept once the base is captured (defense guns don't fire on them when it's your own base), but the alternative is to start running out of mine sweepers.

I don't use 'follow'; I just order each TF by itself! Takes longer, might forget one, and I'm sure it's not foolproof either.

[cdnice]

How many sweepers in a landing TF?

And thanks, that helps!

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

First an aside - I don't use a mine sweeping task force anymore for most operations because the defense's guns just sink them all! I put mine sweeping assets in the invasion TFs instead. That does mean the minefields are around longer and have to be swept once the base is captured (defense guns don't fire on them when it's your own base), but the alternative is to start running out of mine sweepers.

I don't use 'follow'; I just order each TF by itself! Takes longer, might forget one, and I'm sure it's not foolproof either.

In the Marianas scenario where there are Amphib, CVE and ASW TFs to coordinate I just used the speed of the slowest TFs (amphib) to determine how many hexes it would move during the turn and set all the TFs to go to the hex that it would end up in. Exception: one ASW TF goes one hex further to "sweep" ahead of the rest. As witpqs said, it means giving orders to each TF each turn but when they are clustered together it is easy to do. I monitor fuel states and do a "Refuel TF at Sea" if needed before determining where the slowest TF will end up.

[witpqs]

1944 July 19

The Empire captured:


The Allies captured:
Phnom Penh

There were Imperial amphibious or airborne operations at:


There were Allied amphibious or airborne operations at:
Pagan


Naval Bombardments

Allied Ships Bombarding Pagan

Our subs came up empty despite a couple of fights.

Quiet in China.

Continued air strikes and movement into Thailand from the west and north, plus a good attack at Mergui. That attack will continue tomorrow and the next attack east of Tavoy has been ordered. The first attack at Pisnuloke will be made tomorrow as well.

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Ground combat at Mergui (53,62)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 14864 troops, 262 guns, 349 vehicles, Assault Value = 461

Defending force 7294 troops, 85 guns, 11 vehicles, Assault Value = 118

Allied adjusted assault: 362

Japanese adjusted defense: 111

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
282 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Allied ground losses:
304 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 12 (1 destroyed, 11 disabled)

Assaulting units:
4th Burma Battalion
11th PAVO Regiment
3rd Cavalry Regiment
26th Indian Division

Defending units:
112th Infantry Regiment
9th Infantry Regiment
2nd INA Gandhi Regiment
8th Field Construction Battalion
311th Ship Eng Coy
8th JAAF AF Coy
91st JAAF AF Bn
211th Ship Eng Coy
9th JAAF AF Coy

Damage of Bangkok's airfield complex is racking up slowly as most air assets are busy elsewhere. Sweeps over Bangkok have gutted fighter opposition there in combination with the tough Flying Fotresses. Tomorrow Five fighter squadrons (1x P-38J; 1x P-47D25; 2x P-51B; 1x P40N5) will all 40% LRCAP Chiang Mai to ambush Imperial transports flying out of Bangkok. Altitudes are split among 5,000, 7,000, and 10,000 ft.

Phnom Penh was taken handily. Bien Hoa will be assaulted tomorrow. Another victory over the retreating ex-defenders of Quinhon, this time routing them into Tourane. The unit near Pakse held firm against armoured cars, so tank destroyers are being sent in to help.

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Ground combat at Phnom Penh (58,69)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 23563 troops, 343 guns, 372 vehicles, Assault Value = 747

Defending force 3962 troops, 32 guns, 8 vehicles, Assault Value = 74

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Allied adjusted assault: 604

Japanese adjusted defense: 12

Allied assault odds: 50 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Phnom Penh !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
fatigue(-), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2356 casualties reported
Squads: 50 destroyed, 16 disabled
Non Combat: 44 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 11 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 13 (12 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 3

Allied ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
671th Tank Destroyer Battalion
32nd Infantry Division
780th Amphib Tank Battalion
2nd Australian Division

Defending units:
78th Infantry Regiment
12th Port Unit
15th JAAF AF Bn


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Ground combat at 63,65 (near Pakse)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 468 troops, 0 guns, 64 vehicles, Assault Value = 41

Defending force 1080 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Allied adjusted assault: 18

Japanese adjusted defense: 13

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-)
Attacker: leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
2/11th Armoured Car Regiment

Defending units:
28th Air Flotilla


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Ground combat at 66,66 (near Tourane)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 5672 troops, 78 guns, 240 vehicles, Assault Value = 397

Defending force 1018 troops, 10 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 13

Allied adjusted assault: 101

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 101 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), leaders(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
538 casualties reported
Squads: 18 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 19 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 1

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
23rd Australian Brigade
2/5th Armoured Regiment
2/4th Armoured Regiment
22nd Australian Brigade

Defending units:
23rd Ind.Mixed Brigade


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Only sub action in the South China Sea for a change. Washington's condition improved slightly and is now still worse than when she was first hit.

Resupply efforts south of Japan ran into trouble.

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Torishima at 111,68

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 1 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 0 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 16

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 16
TBF-1 Avenger x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 3 destroyed
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAK Bushu Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
PB Kembu Maru
xAK Katsukawa Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp.

CAP engaged:
302 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (16 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
16 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Raid is overhead



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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Torishima at 111,68

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 11

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 9
TBF-1 Avenger x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
PB Kembu Maru, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
PB Hakkaisan Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp.

CAP engaged:
302 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (11 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Raid is overhead



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The Dili and Pagan operations continue.

Intel. Toyko must have a little more damage showing.

[witpqs]

Tokyo.

[Drakanel]

It's nice to see you're progressing so quickly, taking Phnom Penh with minimal problems. There doesn't seem to be much opposition, but still! But I do have another noobish question....

About your fighters doing LRCAP over Chiang Mai. Do you actually KNOW that there are transports operating there? Or do you just think so? And if you KNOW... how?

Is it the auxiliary airframes number you can see hovering on the base? I was under the impression that might also be recon planes, patrol planes or such?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Drakanel

It's nice to see you're progressing so quickly, taking Phnom Penh with minimal problems. There doesn't seem to be much opposition, but still! But I do have another noobish question....

About your fighters doing LRCAP over Chiang Mai. Do you actually KNOW that there are transports operating there? Or do you just think so? And if you KNOW... how?

Is it the auxiliary airframes number you can see hovering on the base? I was under the impression that might also be recon planes, patrol planes or such?

Hehe hehe - trade secret! Just kidding.

There are two ways that I know, one semi-direct and the other totally indirect.

First off, there are many dozen auxiliary types there, and there were even more a short time ago. More than 70 planes for search & recon... no way!

Add that to the situation, it is absolutely the thing to do - meaning get as many combat troops as possible out of pockets where they are being destroyed. That's the indirect way.

The semi-direct way is to add the first point (many auxiliaries) to the fact that I saw (in combat reports and/or SigInt reports) a fragment of the unit at Bangkok when the main unit was encircled at Rangoon. It's very safe to assume that the same thing is taking place with units at Chiang Mai now that several units have made it through the jungle to the base.

The 40% LRCAP of ~125 fighters (about 100 of them near best models) with excellent pilots should bag a bunch the first day to tell us the tale.