The Right Tool for the Job

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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dave sindel
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The Right Tool for the Job

Post by dave sindel »

Good afternoon everyone,

I’ve spent a good part of the morning searching the forum for information about the “best” use of various aircraft types and models. I’ve seen numerous posts about the relative merits of various planes in head to head comparisons – “Corsair vs Thunderbolt” for example – but so far I’ve not seen any sort of “Guide” in the manner of LoBaron’s “The Air Mission Coordination Guide” or Alfred’s “Logistics 101”.

Does such a guide or summary exist? Is so, could someone direct me to it?

A corollary question would be, are successful air missions more the function of better pilots or better aircraft? In a ground attack role for example, will an A-20 group with experienced pilots outperform a B-25 group with good pilots? [/font]
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Lokasenna
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by Lokasenna »

Quantity can be its own quality, but if you want hits... you need skilled pilots. You'll do better attacking an airfield with half as many planes flying with at least 50+ Exp/50+ Skill compared to pilots fresh from flight school (usually Exp 30 or so, and skill 30 or so).

In general, I'm finding:

Lower SR planes are better for CAP than higher SR planes. If you have a choice in a particular location, use the low SR planes for CAP and the higher SR planes for your sweep missions. The reason for this is damaged planes with a high SR take longer to repair (duh!), and you're not likely to sweep with the same squadron for more than 2 days in a row.

There is a balance between altitude and flak: the lower you fly, the more hits you'll get. And the more you'll get hit. This will require experimentation on your part.


The "best" use for a plane depends more on your tactical and strategic situations than it does on the individual plane.
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

AE as a game tends to attract players who like complexity and are often highly quantitative in their analysis style and world-view. It's the biggest bear in the wargaming woods by a lot. Look in the General forum at how many Matrix customers are actually scared of it. So it's not unusual that a lot of beginners want "bibles" from old hands on "the best this and that." If you have a min-max POV there ought to be rules, right?

But as Loka says, there aren't really. The game allows for a great deal of personal style. Hundreds of times in this forum I've read somebody say "you must . . ." and thought "I never do that . . ."

Experiment. Play the AI; that's what it's for. Develop your own bible. It's half the fun.
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Lowpe
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by Lowpe »

Read some AARs, they are usually pretty full of different planes usages. But there is usually a counter the Japanese can use...

Often times the terrain, weather, detection levels, training, fatigue (plane and pilot), morale, experience, altitude, AA (type,size,number, morale, disruption,etc), enemy CAP, enemy radar, local AV support, runway size, leadership, HQa, target size, distance to target can be more important than which frame you fly.

Also important for the Allies is your replacement/production/reinforcement rates for said planes.

dave sindel
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by dave sindel »

Good comments and advice. I love the complexity of the game, and all of the nuances. I have a yellow legal pad on my desk to write myself notes about "do this" and "dont do that again". I've almost finished with a Guadalcanal scenario as the Allies. My attitude is that this is a "learning" exercise so I've been experimenting with different tactics to see what works. Thanks to all who responded.

One follow-up question. What does "FM" stand for ? I noticed it as an option for an upgrade on an A-20 unit. There was an A-20 "FM" and a B-25 "FM" listed as options.
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HansBolter
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

AE as a game tends to attract players who like complexity and are often highly quantitative in their analysis style and world-view. It's the biggest bear in the wargaming woods by a lot. Look in the General forum at how many Matrix customers are actually scared of it. So it's not unusual that a lot of beginners want "bibles" from old hands on "the best this and that." If you have a min-max POV there ought to be rules, right?

But as Loka says, there aren't really. The game allows for a great deal of personal style. Hundreds of times in this forum I've read somebody say "you must . . ." and thought "I never do that . . ."

Experiment. Play the AI; that's what it's for. Develop your own bible. It's half the fun.

+1 moose
Hans

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rustysi
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by rustysi »

I have a yellow legal pad on my desk to write myself notes

That's all...[:D]

I have notebooks, dozens of note papers, stacks of printed forum material, and a dedicated voice recorder.[8|] Am I too far gone?[X(]
One follow-up question. What does "FM" stand for ? I noticed it as an option for an upgrade on an A-20 unit. There was an A-20 "FM" and a B-25 "FM" listed as options.

Sorry don't know, but if its an aircraft item I'm pretty sure its automatic and will occur at a date specified in the editor.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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Dante Fierro
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by Dante Fierro »

ORIGINAL: rustysi

That's all...[:D]

I have notebooks, dozens of note papers, stacks of printed forum material, and a dedicated voice recorder.[8|] Am I too far gone?[X(]
If you're attempting too play AE GC you're already to far gone! [:'(]

I have multiple folders and files on my computer. Each one with a different subject/category. As I peruse the forums (or search for specific subjects) I copy/paste paragraphs or sentences regardin anything that is relevant or is a good tip/idea. The AARs are also a goldmine of information.

IMO you can't just read the current manual and then play AE. 1) There's too much missing instructions in the manual as it is 2) There are too many nuances to the game you won't be able to simply glean from just reading the manual

AE is like signing up for a college course. And even when you finish the course, you're just ready to get started as an intern. [8|]

Is it worth it? Just read the AARs. Yes it's worth it.
Alfred
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by Alfred »

ORIGINAL: dave sindel

Good afternoon everyone,

I’ve spent a good part of the morning searching the forum for information about the “best” use of various aircraft types and models. I’ve seen numerous posts about the relative merits of various planes in head to head comparisons – “Corsair vs Thunderbolt” for example – but so far I’ve not seen any sort of “Guide” in the manner of LoBaron’s “The Air Mission Coordination Guide” or Alfred’s “Logistics 101”.

Does such a guide or summary exist? Is so, could someone direct me to it?

A corollary question would be, are successful air missions more the function of better pilots or better aircraft? In a ground attack role for example, will an A-20 group with experienced pilots outperform a B-25 group with good pilots? [/font]

Not as detailed as a 101 guide would be but read posts #354 and #356 from me in this noob thread.

tm.asp?m=2580654&mpage=12&key=naval%2Cattack&#2719225

Alfred
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: dave sindel

One follow-up question. What does "FM" stand for ? I noticed it as an option for an upgrade on an A-20 unit. There was an A-20 "FM" and a B-25 "FM" listed as options.

I looked in one of my games and don't see this. Do you have a screenshot?

There's a Wildcat variant with 'FM' in the model number, but you're talking bombers.
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Lokasenna
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: dave sindel

Good afternoon everyone,

I’ve spent a good part of the morning searching the forum for information about the “best” use of various aircraft types and models. I’ve seen numerous posts about the relative merits of various planes in head to head comparisons – “Corsair vs Thunderbolt” for example – but so far I’ve not seen any sort of “Guide” in the manner of LoBaron’s “The Air Mission Coordination Guide” or Alfred’s “Logistics 101”.

Does such a guide or summary exist? Is so, could someone direct me to it?

A corollary question would be, are successful air missions more the function of better pilots or better aircraft? In a ground attack role for example, will an A-20 group with experienced pilots outperform a B-25 group with good pilots? [/font]

Not as detailed as a 101 guide would be but read posts #354 and #356 from me in this noob thread.

tm.asp?m=2580654&mpage=12&key=naval%2Cattack�

Alfred

For the most part I agree with your posts there, but I do feel that medium bombers (well, attack bombers in particular, such as the B-25D1 and B-25G) are useful in naval attack roles. I've sunk several CLs and more than several DDs with those 500lb SAP bombs. Have also put damage on CAs. Their ability to suppress flak is extremely useful. If you are "clever" in assigning their range such that they won't fly to an actual enemy base (or small area around it), then unless they are striking against CVs they fare much better. Very useful in denying control of areas of ocean. SBDs do hit harder, but they also aren't able to completely deter bombardment TFs in the same way that B-25s are able to do so - due to range. Numbers aren't an issue as much. I've had success with them near Australia, in the Solomons/New Britain, and in the Gilberts. Not as much success in Burma - too many fighters to oppose them, outside of effective escort/LRCAP range with the default SE Asia OOB in 1943 and early 1944.

TBFs, on the other hand... I loathe Allied aerial torpedoes. Good ASW platform, though.

Still, those are rather fine points and by no means do I use all of my attack bombers in this fashion. If both the naval and ground attacks by ABs didn't use the Strafe skill, I doubt I would be using them like this, as I would rather they were bombing airfields and exposed troops when those are "ready" to be bombed.
Alfred
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by Alfred »

I don't disagree re the Attack Bombers.  But they don't arrive until early to mid 1943.  Plus they must be flown by suitably trained pilots.  Training in Low Naval is not a high priority in 1942.
 
The same good qualities are in evidence with the Australian torpedo equipped medium bombers.  But again they are limited until later in 1942.  The thread I linked dealt with early war usage.
 
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Barb
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by Barb »

I guess "FM" stands for "Field Modification" - regarding A-20s and B-25s it is a modification done by Pappy Gunn on those ships - by adding .50 cals to the nose for use as low altitude strafers. In that case I think Dave is playing some kind of Mod.
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m10bob
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by m10bob »

The air model for this game(at its' HUGE scale) will not be accurate to real life.

The P 39 is a great example. IRL it was somewhat an under-powered dog in the air when the USAAC removed the planned superchargers. In game however, the P 39 is a good defense fighters because it gets an "inline bonus" for its' MG's over the engine cowling and cannon in the nose. These guns alone trump those of the A6m2..

In a much smaller scale, (planes vs planes and nothing else), a game would take a lot more into account, like wing-loading, power lost in a turn, etc..
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dave sindel
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by dave sindel »

I'm playing the "stock" Guadalcanal Scenario, not any mod. Barb's idea on FM meaning "field modification" makes a lot of sense to me. I'll try and get a screenshot posted. The game is on my home computer, and I'm at work.
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reg113
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by reg113 »

Always remember, "Your Mileage May Vary..."
"Life's a b***h, then you die."
dave sindel
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by dave sindel »

I finally had the opportunity to get some screenshots of the "FM" units I referred to. The 3rd BG/8th BG stationed at Noumea and currently flying A-20A Havocs. The first shot is of the upgrades available

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dave sindel
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by dave sindel »

The A-20 "FM" data screen

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dave sindel
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by dave sindel »

The B-25 "FM"

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dave sindel
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RE: The Right Tool for the Job

Post by dave sindel »

I checked the aircraft data screen for the A-20 FM and the B-25 FM, and they list more, and heavier machine guns on the FM models. To me, that reinforces Barb's idea of "field modifications".
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