Disaster

Take command of air and naval assets from post-WW2 to the near future in tactical and operational scale, complete with historical and hypothetical scenarios and an integrated scenario editor.

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Zaslon
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:52 am

RE: Disaster

Post by Zaslon »

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

ORIGINAL: p1t1o

Eh? What? Delete? Ban?

For what? Writing a two-line rant? For pointing out some ill behaviour?

And an insult to my honour to boot!

Sir, then you must be the braver, no? To not delete me? Very bold action, not banning me.

Sometimes the noblest thing to do is to do nothing, right?

Maybe if you had done either of those things, or, I dunno, locking or deleting this thread, you would at least look like you were actually taking control of the forum, instead of engaging in some kind of contest for you to "win" even though it is totally unnecessary for you to do so!

See you around I guess!

THANKS!

PS: I don't know what the comments about implementing requests are about, I certainly havn't questioned any performance there - you've obviously got the wrong guy but heyho shoot first and ask questions later!

PPS: made you waste one more minute on me [;)]


You're acting like a moron
Wow.[:-] It's crystal clear that you are new in the business! Where is your commercial attitude Mike?
You are not a normal user, you have a responsibility as a WarfareSims member!! If you want to act as any normal member, you can create another account. But careful, an hypothetical account can be banned if you use this kind of vocabulary. [;)]

You built a marvellous community around CMANO. We want help you to improve the simulation. We are helping you improving the DB3K and CWDB. Sometimes, the community share some golden ideas. Often, we share trash. But we need keep a frame of mutual respect.





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Kids think about Iran and Amateurs think about Russia, but professionals think about China
thewood1
Posts: 9106
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Location: Boston

RE: Disaster

Post by thewood1 »

What is DB33?
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Sardaukar
Posts: 11294
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Location: Finland/Israel

RE: Disaster

Post by Sardaukar »

I think he means DB3000.
"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-

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mikmykWS
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Disaster

Post by mikmykWS »

ORIGINAL: Zaslon

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

ORIGINAL: p1t1o

Eh? What? Delete? Ban?

For what? Writing a two-line rant? For pointing out some ill behaviour?

And an insult to my honour to boot!

Sir, then you must be the braver, no? To not delete me? Very bold action, not banning me.

Sometimes the noblest thing to do is to do nothing, right?

Maybe if you had done either of those things, or, I dunno, locking or deleting this thread, you would at least look like you were actually taking control of the forum, instead of engaging in some kind of contest for you to "win" even though it is totally unnecessary for you to do so!

See you around I guess!

THANKS!

PS: I don't know what the comments about implementing requests are about, I certainly havn't questioned any performance there - you've obviously got the wrong guy but heyho shoot first and ask questions later!

PPS: made you waste one more minute on me [;)]


You're acting like a moron
Wow.[:-] It's crystal clear that you are new in the business! Where is your commercial attitude Mike?
You are not a normal user, you have a responsibility as a WarfareSims member!! If you want to act as any normal member, you can create another account. But careful, an hypothetical account can be banned if you use this kind of vocabulary. [;)]

You built a marvellous community around CMANO. We want help you to improve the simulation. We are helping you improving the DB33 and CWDB. Sometimes, the community share some golden ideas. Often, we share trash. But we need keep a frame of mutual respect.





That guy has been involved in several back and forths on this forum with multiple users so I'd say his contribution is a net minus.

Mutual respect means we don't get messed with either not that we have to take crap.




Thanks

Mike


mikmykWS
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Disaster

Post by mikmykWS »

What's that Allen? Still bitter about Harpoon? Find relevance by doing something positive.

There probably is a meme on that.
p1t1o
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:35 am

RE: Disaster

Post by p1t1o »

I think we can all agree that the devs have created an exemplary piece of software, and that their after-market support and continued work are also of an excellent quality.

I do not recall ever reading any comment from anyone that has suggested otherwise, perhaps I have not read the right threads, but strongly defensive replies and posts are common.

I'm not going to say that no other game or forum has ever offered this level of support, because there ARE other games and communities which offer support and continued development to at least rival this one. This fact takes nothing away from CMANO and its development team.

What I have not seen with other gaming/simming fora are conflicts like these, this has been unexpected and discouraging. Even on the Wargame forums the worst you saw were some fanboys having a flamewar about their favorite units/factions/pieces of equipment.

I think we can all agree that passion should be tempered, and not let out of control.

Mistakes were made, we all make them, I think we can leave it at that.


***edit***
ORIGINAL: mikmyk

That guy has been involved in several back and forths on this forum with multiple users so I'd say his contribution is a net minus.

Mutual respect means we don't get messed with either not that we have to take crap.

Wtf is this now? Im trying to make peace here.

You're accusing me of...conversing with people in a forum?!

Or do you have something offensive I apparently have been saying in mind? Because I sure as heck don't have any idea what it could be, perhaps you could, you know, mention it?

Don't try and describe mutual respect, you have to learn what it is first, I dont even know what you were attempting to say...
mikmykWS
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Disaster

Post by mikmykWS »

Looking at your last post and now this I'm now really convinced you're messing with this. Little too Jeckyll and Hide.

Thanks

Mike



mikmykWS
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Disaster

Post by mikmykWS »

ORIGINAL: p1t1o

I think we can all agree that the devs have created an exemplary piece of software, and that their after-market support and continued work are also of an excellent quality.

I do not recall ever reading any comment from anyone that has suggested otherwise, perhaps I have not read the right threads, but strongly defensive replies and posts are common.

I'm not going to say that no other game or forum has ever offered this level of support, because there ARE other games and communities which offer support and continued development to at least rival this one. This fact takes nothing away from CMANO and its development team.

What I have not seen with other gaming/simming fora are conflicts like these, this has been unexpected and discouraging. Even on the Wargame forums the worst you saw were some fanboys having a flamewar about their favorite units/factions/pieces of equipment.

I think we can all agree that passion should be tempered, and not let out of control.

Mistakes were made, we all make them, I think we can leave it at that.


***edit***
ORIGINAL: mikmyk

That guy has been involved in several back and forths on this forum with multiple users so I'd say his contribution is a net minus.

Mutual respect means we don't get messed with either not that we have to take crap.

Wtf is this now? Im trying to make peace here.

You're accusing me of...conversing with people in a forum?!

Or do you have something offensive I apparently have been saying in mind? Because I sure as heck don't have any idea what it could be, perhaps you could, you know, mention it?

Don't try and describe mutual respect, you have to learn what it is first, I dont even know what you were attempting to say...

You're now abusing our time. This takes away from what we do.

Mike
thewood1
Posts: 9106
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:24 pm
Location: Boston

RE: Disaster

Post by thewood1 »

Here is my screed, not related to the OP...

I have no problem helping people or other people trying to help. But things I can't stand are the following:

1) Not helping yourself first. This is a difficult game to understand and master. Use the search function. It works really well.
2) Not even making an attempt to understand naval combat. Do some of your own basic research. There are links all over this forum and even Wikipedia can help.
3) Giving grief to someone trying to help...especially when you're not helping.
4) Tossing hand grenades into the forum. Throwing a problem in without any info like saves and then just abandoning it. Then showing up with another issue and expecting help.
5) Asking the same question in multiple places.
6) Not taking a minute to see if the info you are looking for is already in one of the stickied threads.

I don't want to come across as a forum bully, but when you offer a suggestion and someone comes in and says you shouldn't have, it just frosts me. Especially when that person offers nothing other than to criticize. Command can take a lot of effort to understand. There are video tutorials, manuals, FAQs, wiki sites, help threads on the forums...put some effort into answering your own questions.
mikmykWS
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Disaster

Post by mikmykWS »

I agree although things are not always so black and white in that they may not know they're doing these things.

Thanks

Mike
p1t1o
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:35 am

RE: Disaster

Post by p1t1o »

ORIGINAL: mikmyk
You're now abusing our time. This takes away from what we do.

Well thats just garbage.

However...
ORIGINAL: mikmyk
I agree although things are not always so black and white in that they may not know they're doing these things.

That might just be the first constructive thing you have said in some time.

I'd also add something about glass houses.
mikmykWS
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Disaster

Post by mikmykWS »

Don't care. Keep spinning your wheels.

Mike
p1t1o
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:35 am

RE: Disaster

Post by p1t1o »

Whatever your opinions of me, even if I am everything you think I am, at least I have made attempts to resolve or at least end this.
With respect to that, yes, I guess I have been spinning my wheels.

I'll no longer respond to anything related to these issues. Thats not some macho attempt at appearing to take the high road or getting the "last word" and storming off, its just for your information, to clarify my intentions. But take it how you will.

mikmykWS
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Disaster

Post by mikmykWS »

Great Thanks!

Mike

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erichswafford
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 7:20 pm

RE: Disaster

Post by erichswafford »

It would be good to have a *constructive* discussion of how to get the most out of the AI. I think some kind of tutorial on this would answer a lot of peoples' concerns and questions. It's a complex game that is completely open-ended. It is also a serious simulation that requires some time commitment because there are so many possible permutations of possible events. In that sense, it's almost like learning a (very high-level) programming language.

I will tell you my little secret for this game. I actually play both sides a lot. Maybe it's from years of playing wargames solo, but it's just become second nature to me. I decide in my head what each side might reasonably know, then I assiduously refuse to act upon any other info. That means if I know there's a a sub *right there*, I don't send a P-3 right over that spot. Instead, I just use the Missions and see what happens. I don't really play CMANO as a "game". I just want to see what happens. I have no interest in "winning".

I think of the AI as a "tactical aid" that keeps me out of the micro-management business (ie I don't have to manually go in and tell a frigate with a helo how to prosecute a goblin or tell a fighter how to set up a missile shot) rather than something that's going to magically divine a brilliant over-arching strategy. I am convinced that no AI currently in existence on the planet Earth in 2015 could even *begin* to do that. That's what the scripting and such are for. But since I'm lazy, instead of scripting, I just switch sides when I see the AI doing something that might be suicidal or otherwise unlike what I think a human might do. That's really one of the great things about CMANO - you've got all this flexibility to play or simulate as you see fit.

Or, you can just play some of the smaller scenarios where the "tactical" nature of the AI does a very fine job of handling matters. I've gotten clobbered plenty of times by this AI in those settings.
"It is right to learn, even from the enemy."
- Ovid
FlyingBear
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:32 am

RE: Disaster

Post by FlyingBear »

FWIW, what Kondor999 describes is pretty much exactly how I use the game as well, 80% of the time! 10% I have a go at scripting stuff just for fun (and when I actually get that to work well I release the scenario for others to enjoy, has only happened once so far), 10% I play others' completed scenarios for some variations and different ideas.
thewood1
Posts: 9106
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:24 pm
Location: Boston

RE: Disaster

Post by thewood1 »

I think one of the issues is there, in general terms, two kinds of players. The first kind look at Command as a sophisticated game and are looking to beat the AI/enemy. The other type looks at it as more of a simulation and sandbox. The former want the game to be complete as a game and everything else is just dressing. The latter want the simulation aspects to be increased and most likely play in the editor using God Mode and Side Switching. AI issues that come are looked up on as a challenge. For the Game crowd, AI issues inhibit the full game.

Neither side is right, but there are a lot of games out there, but not many approachable simulations...for a reason. Its hard to do and not as many consumers are interested in it.
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erichswafford
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 7:20 pm

RE: Disaster

Post by erichswafford »

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I think one of the issues is there, in general terms, two kinds of players. The first kind look at Command as a sophisticated game and are looking to beat the AI/enemy. The other type looks at it as more of a simulation and sandbox. The former want the game to be complete as a game and everything else is just dressing. The latter want the simulation aspects to be increased and most likely play in the editor using God Mode and Side Switching. AI issues that come are looked up on as a challenge. For the Game crowd, AI issues inhibit the full game.

Neither side is right, but there are a lot of games out there, but not many approachable simulations...for a reason. Its hard to do and not as many consumers are interested in it.

I think this is very insightful. I think many CMANO scenarios can be played as "Games" and they're usually the small ones where the AI can't get lost trying to manage hundreds of units.

I think that as people get more familiar with scripting and such, you'll see some larger scenarios (and I haven't played them all, so we could already be there by now) that have a similar "game challenge" feel to them.

Right now, there are actually just a few issues that cause me to *have* to switch over to the other side. Chief among these is the "Recon plane heads like a moth to the flame" issue where recon assets insist on over-flying unidentified enemies - promptly leading to their incineration if the enemy has so much as a MANPAD lying about. They also like to forget to drop below cloud cover (as do bombers), leading to the "endless circling dance of death". They'll just keep circling until every single one of them is dead.

So, I go in and make sure these things don't happen to the AI until the code gets polished a bit (Maybe it has? Haven't been playing much lately).
"It is right to learn, even from the enemy."
- Ovid
mikmykWS
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Disaster

Post by mikmykWS »

Thanks guys for swinging this in the right direction:) Very much appreciated

Mike
Casinn
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:12 am

RE: Disaster

Post by Casinn »

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I think one of the issues is there, in general terms, two kinds of players. The first kind look at Command as a sophisticated game and are looking to beat the AI/enemy. The other type looks at it as more of a simulation and sandbox. The former want the game to be complete as a game and everything else is just dressing. The latter want the simulation aspects to be increased and most likely play in the editor using God Mode and Side Switching. AI issues that come are looked up on as a challenge. For the Game crowd, AI issues inhibit the full game.

Neither side is right, but there are a lot of games out there, but not many approachable simulations...for a reason. Its hard to do and not as many consumers are interested in it.

Spot on, I think. I'm in the first class. I'd like it to be a great single player game vs the AI, with very little micromanaging, but I see that would limit the possibilities of what the program can do.

Never really hit that sweet spot for me, but the community had created scenarios that have have given me much enjoyment as I learned to play a different way.
(and which has taught me more about naval equipment/warfare than I ever would have just simply giving orders to units and watching them carry them out.)
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