Psych Ops: BTS "Lite" NY59Giants (A) vs John 3rd (J)

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

Lets see how loud the cock is crowing come 1945 ;]

amen.

[ny59giants]

Part of me WANTS to be able to play with CVB Midway!!

[CaptBeefheart]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Torpedo strikes on ports is not a mod change, but WAD.

That's interesting. For some reason I thought torpedo strikes on ports were only allowed on Dec 7 at Pearl (and not by all TBDs), with the idea that the Allies (not to mention IJ) would use torpedo nets from then on. I looked it up, and found this thread:

tm.asp?m=2587940&mpage=1&key=port%2Ctor ... e&#2587940

One bit of info from Nomad on the thread:

this is from section 7.2.1.7

Bombers attacking ports will attack any ships at anchor 50% of the time, however, TF’s docked
in port will not be attacked. These attacks use bombs with only a small percentage of torpedo
bombers using torpedoes (as it is assumed these ships may be in dry dock or protected by
torpedo nets). If there are less than 10 ships at port, the chance of bombers attacking ships
lessens with each number less than 10 (so, bombers would be more likely to attack ships if 9
were in port as opposed to 4).

I'm at the office, and thus don't have the manual handy (or access to old combat reports), but I don't recall getting any such post-Dec 7 TT hits at Pearl in my Pacific Focus dustup with Lowpe a few months ago. I did receive plenty of bomb hits, however.

Cheers,
CC

[HansBolter]

I am a bit surprised by the fact that Pearl didn't get any boost in this scenario in the way of defense.

The entire scenario is predicated on all sides being far more ready for war than they were historically, yet the American side does nothing to better secure Pearl in the face of what is coming.

I can't see NOT better securing the most important base the Americans have outside the continental US.

Sure both sides got lots of extras, but the KB still rules the early game and can be used to isolate Pearl no matter what extra beef the Americans were given for the game start.

I am loathe to say this to John3rd as I don't want to burst the bubble of fun he is having, but handing the Japanese this ability just seems over the top to me.

[ny59giants]

My old opponent, Olorin, is doing this in his game vs Jocke without all the extras. I think the pro and con of doing this is still to be determined. One thing that has been proven is Pearl can be hit hard if Japan devotes most of her BBs to bombarding the base. Many book have asked why Japan did not invade after the attack. The big things has been supplies. I was unable to get anymore in and now as we are in April, I'm down to less than 10k. Not good!! [X(]

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I am a bit surprised by the fact that Pearl didn't get any boost in this scenario in the way of defense.

The entire scenario is predicated on all sides being far more ready for war than they were historically, yet the American side does nothing to better secure Pearl in the face of what is coming.

I can't see NOT better securing the most important base the Americans have outside the continental US.

Sure both sides got lots of extras, but the KB still rules the early game and can be used to isolate Pearl no matter what extra beef the Americans were given for the game start.

I am loathe to say this to John3rd as I don't want to burst the bubble of fun he is having, but handing the Japanese this ability just seems over the top to me.

I wondered if Ny59Giant had started a massive supply convoy chain to pearl beginning 7dec41. Also wondered if all political points had been used at pearl to have full divisions in case of invasion?
Also wondered if the Pearl divisions could be upgraded to 42 squads? I recall USA gets 90 per month so maybe one division is upgraded plus whatever comes in as reinforcements.

[paullus99]

@Hans - I tend to agree with you. These types of scenarios seem to be very light on actually preparing the US / Allied side to face the onslaught that the extra toys John brings to the table......I still can't see how anyone would enjoy playing these scenarios - against John in particular, given that any single defeat on the Allied side will set them back multiple years in actually accomplishing anything.

Who wants to be a Japanese punching bag until sometime late in 1944?

[Mike McCreery]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

@Hans - I tend to agree with you. These types of scenarios seem to be very light on actually preparing the US / Allied side to face the onslaught that the extra toys John brings to the table......I still can't see how anyone would enjoy playing these scenarios - against John in particular, given that any single defeat on the Allied side will set them back multiple years in actually accomplishing anything.

Who wants to be a Japanese punching bag until sometime late in 1944?

Plenty of people '] For the AFB the light at the end of the tunnel isnt a train like it is for the JFB.

You have to enjoy the day to day interaction be it offense or defense or you are investing way too much in this game for a payoff after years of non-fun.

[Lecivius]

In my first PBEM I had to throw in the towel as allies around April '42. It was a vast learning experience for me, even if it was humiliating. I did not want to be the kid who took his marbles & went home when things went bad. But my opponent was very good with subs, and I was green in the world of PBEM's. I lost my carriers & played on, but Pearl starved even without dedicated attacks ongoing. As noted here, PH goes through 6500+ a day in supplies. As a AFB, you need to put a lot of burgers in this place before you start beefing up other locations, or you can get caught with your pants down.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Who wants to be a Japanese punching bag until sometime late in 1944?

I thought all AFBs did![:D]

Personally, from what I understand of this mod, Japan isn't nearly as strong as scen 2, and given the changes in China, may very well be weaker than scen 1.

If John is indeed sending 5 divisions to Pearl, think of what that means everywhere else!

Michael is almost done weathering the storm, and I suspect John will be in for a very tough time.

[poodlebrain]

It is probably too late for you to do so, but couldn't you have burned through some of that fuel by running multiple task forces on full speed, retirement allowed missions out to maximum range at which they could return to Pearl Harbor before the AM air strike phase? Any surviving old BB's would have been ideal candidates for these missions. The Japanese would have needed SCF's to try and intercept your TF's, and keeping his surface combatants at sea would have used his short supplies of fuel as well as caused damage to his ships, not to mention the possibility of combat losses.

You could also use a variation of this technique to try and lure the Japanese into surface engagements. Sortie fast TF's of light ships bringing them to within reaction range of Japanese SCF's and follow with your slower TF's with heavier guns trying to intercept the Japanese after they have expended some, or all, or their ammo.

Please take these suggestions as ideas to counter the Japanese strategy rather than as criticism of your play. If you resign yourself to losing the ships you might as well try and do something beneficial with them as you incur the losses.

[poodlebrain]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I am a bit surprised by the fact that Pearl didn't get any boost in this scenario in the way of defense.

Something as simple, and inexpensive in terms of Supply costs, as increasing the Fort Level would change the calculus of an invasion. I'd be willing to trade fewer at start Supply points at Pearl for the time savings of building higher Fort Levels.

[ny59giants]

Forts are at 5. Its lack of supplies that are going to hurt.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

My old opponent, Olorin, is doing this in his game vs Jocke without all the extras. I think the pro and con of doing this is still to be determined. One thing that has been proven is Pearl can be hit hard if Japan devotes most of her BBs to bombarding the base. Many book have asked why Japan did not invade after the attack. The big things has been supplies. I was unable to get anymore in and now as we are in April, I'm down to less than 10k. Not good!! [X(]

We are playing SCEN 30 so Nick gets all the extra goodies from SCEN 2. Don´t think it matters though as I have no doubt it can be done in SCEN 1 as well.

Its an interesting opening. [:)]

[ny59giants]

April 18th - Java falls....finally!!

4, 5, 21, 38, 55 ID now freed up along with 65 Bde

April 20th - Pearl falls!! [:(]

Ground combat at Pearl Harbor (180,107)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 68534 troops, 736 guns, 399 vehicles, Assault Value = 1776

Defending force 52905 troops, 713 guns, 466 vehicles, Assault Value = 276

Japanese adjusted assault: 1956

Allied adjusted defense: 149

Japanese assault odds: 13 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Pearl Harbor !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
608 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 110 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 16 disabled
Vehicles lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
50989 casualties reported
Squads: 787 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 4104 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 301 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 784 (784 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 568 (568 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 29

Assaulting units:
16th Division
48th Division
56th Division
19th Ind Engineer Regiment
20th Division
2nd Division
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
20th Ind Engineer Regiment
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
14th Army
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
19th Infantry Regiment
21st Infantry Regiment
25th Infantry Division
34th Cmbt Engineer Regiment
3rd Marine Defense Battalion
8th Port Maint Engineer Battalion
19th Base Group
23rd MAG
15th Base Group
22nd MAG
Seventh USAAF
21st MAG
Hawaiian Dept
18th Base Group
11th Base Group
Pacific Ocean Areas
21st Base Group
24th MAG
14th Naval District
VII US Bomber Cmnd
64th Coast AA Regiment
804th Aviation Engineer Battalion
251st Coast AA Regiment
1st Marine Defense Battalion
Oahu Harbor Defense
4th Marine Defense Battalion
98th Coast AA Regiment
97th Coast AA Regiment
VII US Fighter Cmnd

Now what?!? John now has TEN divisions that will go somewhere after a little R&R - India, Australia, Alaska, SoPac west (Suva & New Caledonia), SoPac east (Society Islands & Marquesas Islands).

Edit: 33rd ID shows up prepping for Albany.

[zuluhour]

It has been 30 game days since I last checked in John's thread, still know to much to comment. He is a
"testy" opponent. Can you show a base ownership map of SoPac east of Pago?

[JocMeister]

Ouchi! I will feel that pain very soon...

How many LCU VPs did he get?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Now what?!? John now has TEN divisions that will go somewhere after a little R&R - India, Australia, Alaska, SoPac west (Suva & New Caledonia), SoPac east (Society Islands & Marquesas Islands).

Edit: 33rd ID shows up prepping for Albany.

He should just go for LA! [;)]

[ny59giants]

Can you show a base ownership map of SoPac east of Pago?

Japan has Penrhyn Island and Malden along with the Line Island group. I have two NZ Bde at Suva with size 4 forts.

I have a small PBY (4 planes) group at Nuku Hiva (Marquesas Islands) with 3 AVDs. Weeks ago 2 xAKs dropped off about 8k in supplies. On the way is an Amphib TF from San Fran via Panama (less than week to Balboa) to this base with: 78 AA, 11 MAG HQ, 6 Port Mainten, 3 BF, 2 USMC Para Bn, 2 Pion Bn, and 24k in supplies. 159th Mot Inf Rgt is still at San Fran awaiting PP, but is 100% prepped. Similar amount and type of troops are prepping for her neighbor, Hiva Oa.

Troops are prepping for: Rangiroa, Bora Bora, and Tahiti in Society Islands. Last turn (4/23), a TF left San Fran (via Balboa) for Rapa (170,196) way down at southern map edge with Johnson Is CD & 2 SeaBee (13k in supply). Plans for SE Pacific is to land troops and supplies steadily in months to come at these six bases and dig forts ONLY (level 4 at least) before expanding AFs and Ports. Since Op Reports shows both sides base expansions, I don't want John to think I'm doing anything down here.

I just dedicated two TFs to make runs from USA to Port Stanley to stockpile supplies and fuel. Base at Port 3(2) and 89% towards next while AF is still 0(5). If John does go where I think, western Australia, I'll need to have the southern approaches to NZ and Australia ready to be used.

[ny59giants]

How many LCU VPs did he get?

From my calculations, 2718, was the change from turn before. See screenshot for damages to date. Lots of ships and LCU points.

Side note - Looking at CV & CVL availability for Japan and Allies, partiality will not occur until early '44 if none are sunk. Japan starts with 6 CVs & 6 CVLs and builds 8 CVs & 6 CVLs. Thankfully, I get about 100 CVEs. [:D] I've been kidding with John that I get to play with CVB Midway this time around.