First Winter rules

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chaos45
Posts: 1875
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 10:00 am

First Winter rules

Post by chaos45 »

Just going to say after getting a month in now on blizzard vs a non-AI player limited blizzard really doesnt reflect the disaster it was for the German Army.

At 5M+ men the Red army is as strong if not stronger than it was historically and still in areas that the Soviets historically did very well in I cant even budge the lines much and the germans werent dug in at all really almost the entire line 0-1 entrenchment. I could understand if the units were heavily dug in but they weren't. The blizzard should force a choice on the German player- halt in november and dig in or take it big on the chin in december, the limited winter effects dont do that.

In the real situation german rifles stopped even working and it took them time to figure out a lubricant to keep the bolts on their weapons from freezing closed lol.

The limited blizzard is abit to mild more like a rough winter storm than the disaster it really was where German troops were freezing to death on the frontlines. Historically the Germans alone had lost roughly 1.1 million men by march 1942 and those were battle casualties...illness and frostbite which were mostly recovered after a month or so out of the line were more than double battle losses over the first winter.

I understand many think the regular blizzard was to powerful but it also seems the limited winter is to mild overall and its main effect is stopping the Germans from attacking more than anything.

Just a suggestion but maybe if Mild/limited winter is chosen as a game option the Soviets shouldn't take the morale hit in 1942 as a balance for lack of realistic losses from first winter on the Germans...if a german player can post 1M+ losses after the first winter with mild/limited option in a decently played game please disprove me but I doubt it. As I have forced pelton to make many many frontal assaults into well fortified locations and German losses up to January are only 600k+

Another option would be to make the mild/limited 1st winter more severe but give a larger mitigation of effects for being better dug-in.

I know some will accuse me of being a fanboy but I assure you I have no favorites, the winter should be rough for the Germans not just an exercise in not attacking for 3 months then promptly in march resuming the offensive something that historically they were nowhere near capable of doing it took a massive effort in rebuilding and reinforcing formations over the spring to get ready for the 1942 summer offensive and even then the GHC didnt achieve the levels of forces they wanted.

Just my thoughts up to Jan 1942 [:)]


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M60A3TTS
Posts: 4497
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:20 am

RE: First Winter rules

Post by M60A3TTS »

I agree 100%. People playing with no 2-1:1-1 and mild blizzard really put the Soviet side in a bind. The Axis can't be dislodged close to Moscow under those conditions because of their low summer losses and defensible terrain. So come summer '42 when Soviet morale takes the big hit, for the Axis player, it's on to Moscow and push the Soviets so far back in the south as to win outright or make reaching Berlin before the end of game a real longshot. But if Soviet players want to play certain individuals who require those conditions, that's a choice, albeit not a smart one.
chaos45
Posts: 1875
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 10:00 am

RE: First Winter rules

Post by chaos45 »

Another option is perhaps any German unit moving in blizzard conditions takes massive attrition losses. Additional German retreat losses an such. This would help prevent the push all fall then just retreat with almost no ill effects. As the German army was primarilary horse drawn and due to lack of hay and freezing conditions the German ability to move heavy equipment became non-existent in the winter of 1941. Even in circumstances where a german unit might retreat with many of its units manpower intact the unit would in-effect lose all its heavy equipment because they couldnt move it.

Even German/western european trucks were about useless in the first winter due to engine blocks cracking from the cold/lack of proper oil/anti-freeze. Im all for the German army not just collapsing but their ability to maneuver and sustain a defense line should be costly in equipment and men especially when not spending the winter in bunkers.
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VigaBrand
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:51 pm
Location: Germany
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RE: First Winter rules

Post by VigaBrand »

Please wait until .05 is out.
At the moment the balancing act is .03 favour the german side and now everybody roll back to favour the soviet side, so you will never get a good balance.
In my game against loki, he made pretty well progress, but my army was weaker than peltons and his stronger.
The new .05 should bring some changes in favour of the soviet side, maybe this will be translate in a stronger army and so more breakthroughs for the soviets.
My suggestion is "mild winter" should bring a higher % of guards units (in '42). This will indirect made the russians stronger, because they will have more 50 Moral units in '42.


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Peltonx
Posts: 5814
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:24 am
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RE: First Winter rules

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Just going to say after getting a month in now on blizzard vs a non-AI player limited blizzard really doesnt reflect the disaster it was for the German Army.

At 5M+ men the Red army is as strong if not stronger than it was historically and still in areas that the Soviets historically did very well in I cant even budge the lines much and the germans werent dug in at all really almost the entire line 0-1 entrenchment. I could understand if the units were heavily dug in but they weren't. The blizzard should force a choice on the German player- halt in november and dig in or take it big on the chin in december, the limited winter effects dont do that.

In the real situation german rifles stopped even working and it took them time to figure out a lubricant to keep the bolts on their weapons from freezing closed lol.

The limited blizzard is abit to mild more like a rough winter storm than the disaster it really was where German troops were freezing to death on the frontlines. Historically the Germans alone had lost roughly 1.1 million men by march 1942 and those were battle casualties...illness and frostbite which were mostly recovered after a month or so out of the line were more than double battle losses over the first winter.

I understand many think the regular blizzard was to powerful but it also seems the limited winter is to mild overall and its main effect is stopping the Germans from attacking more than anything.

Just a suggestion but maybe if Mild/limited winter is chosen as a game option the Soviets shouldn't take the morale hit in 1942 as a balance for lack of realistic losses from first winter on the Germans...if a german player can post 1M+ losses after the first winter with mild/limited option in a decently played game please disprove me but I doubt it. As I have forced pelton to make many many frontal assaults into well fortified locations and German losses up to January are only 600k+

Another option would be to make the mild/limited 1st winter more severe but give a larger mitigation of effects for being better dug-in.

I know some will accuse me of being a fanboy but I assure you I have no favorites, the winter should be rough for the Germans not just an exercise in not attacking for 3 months then promptly in march resuming the offensive something that historically they were nowhere near capable of doing it took a massive effort in rebuilding and reinforcing formations over the spring to get ready for the 1942 summer offensive and even then the GHC didnt achieve the levels of forces they wanted.

Just my thoughts up to Jan 1942 [:)]



You have played one game and you know what your talking about?

If you cant do sht under mild blizzard dec you cant do sht under normal.

You lost way to many men your weak so your blizzard O sucks, I have played 20+ normal blizzards so I have exp and data to back up what I say.

and your like me you HATE losing, but my 4 loses did more for my player skilles then my 29 wins.

Whining will not change much of anything, but understanding the engine will.

.05 alrdy has one of your data based threads in it.

but this is simply whining based on your whining.

Stop cring a river and look up historical data. Russia really did not do sht during there magicial Offensive in 41/42.

Russia had more loses in 42 and 43 without major pockets, which means Germany was kicking ass straight up fighting.

Russias 41/42 "blizzard" offensive did not pocket a single major ( division), but under normal blizzard rules Russia can pocket 30-40 divisions and even if your a complete newbie you can pocket 10-20.

Historically speaking normal blizzard is Middle Earth

mid blizzard is historical.


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