Shipborne AEW a/c compromise position?

[thewood1]

I just can't understand how any can have even the smallest problem with someone offering advice. OK, don't take the advice...ignore it...see if someone answers the question...I don't care. But telling people to not offer an answer beyond just a simple no is very short-sighted and frustrating.

[thewood1]

btw, having a strat AI that can account more eventualities is great for a fairly simple game. But the issue with having a big strat AI can also limit the scenario designer and make building a scenario editor that much more difficult to build effectively. Right now, LUA is a very good scripting system for making the AI very flexible. It is up to the scenario designer at that point.

The question comse down to making the game simpler to do certain things or make it more flexible. People will claim you can have both in a game, I have yet to see it.

[Stevechase]

You said "But the issue with having a big strat AI can also limit the scenario designer" and you are correct and that is where having scripts would come in. I am not saying have one or the other I am saying have both but with more emphasis on AI where designers have a robust intelligent AI that can account for many eventualities possibly taking intelligent actions on its own though maybe not the ones the designer intends for a particular scenario and so that is where the your scripts are used to gently nudge the AI into a particular direction.

[Stevechase]

I think a strong robust AI that has to be restrained by scripts is better than a placid AI that has to have scripting before it will do anything coming close to real life actions. And I am just using those two extremes as an example not saying the game is the latter though I do believe it tends to be closer to the latter. And it seems as we focus so much on scripts that the devs will think that is all we want and perhaps spend less time on the AI. Anyway thats my fear. This is only my opinion and I could be wrong. I am honestly not trying to piss people off and certainly don't want to leave anyone with the impression that the devs are skimping or giving us less than what the game deserves. I know their heart and soul is in here. It is just an honest question I am asking.

[mikmykWS]

There is no trade off between scripts and a higher level AI. Its annoying to even suggest that we implemented them as a crutch for our AI or that it hide's bigger problems as you can do about a million more AI things with it.

Do you have any idea how nuts your post sounds? Reminds me of somebody. Just being honest.

Mike

[Stevechase]

I thought I made it clear that is not what I was tying to imply. That is not at all what was meant. I said that as we clamor about scripts thats what you hear that we want so that tends to get your attention going forward. Can no one see what I am saying here? If I am wrong. Hey I am willing to be taught. I've been wrong before. I really don't understand the anger. I would think you would welcome discussion that could improve gameplay. And if I am wrong simply say so or say hey you don't really understand what your talking about (preferably in a nice way). To say such a questions is nuts. And the part about "Reminds me of somebody" whats that about.

Anyway I believe you have answered my question (though a tad harshly) that there is no trade off, thats good enough for me so I'll quit beating this dead horse that seems to be making me pariah.[;)]

Good luck

[mikmykWS]

Thanks. It just really annoying to get criticized for the high crime of adding lua and the event engine. I think most understand why.

[rvseydlitz]

Reading through this, nobody was accusing anyone of making scripts, etc....

The OP posted a question asking if the games AI is able to do something... not "how do you do it" but rather "can I expect it to be done against me by the AI?"

Then others jumped in suggesting some very cool ways to make it be done with LUA...

then, Steve referred to the OP, and reminded the others that the question was not "how do I....." but "Can one expect the AI to do ...."

then it seems everyone is attacking Steve for pointing out the original question....

A serious lack of communication by all sides.

[mikmykWS]

Yes I agree. Lot of misunderstanding here.

Mike

[thewood1]

Yes, I apologize for the high crime of suggesting a way to do something assuming that by suggesting a way to do it, there is no easier way to do it. Next simple one word answers is all anyone should give.

[mikmykWS]

Ah see that posts have been edited and got an email .

Sigh...

Mike

[thewood1]

You must be special

[thewood1]

My impression on re-reading this is myself and others are being chastised for suggesting how to do something when what we should be doing is telling the devs that need to change the game.

That would have a lot more credibility if the person complaining was actually contributing something or I was the only one who made my suggestion.

[NakedWeasel]

At the risk of offending our female grognards, Are you guys PMSing? [:D]

[mikmykWS]

At the risk of offending idiots. Are you?

Mike

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: thewood1

My impression on re-reading this is myself and others are being chastised for suggesting how to do something when what we should be doing is telling the devs that need to change the game.

That would have a lot more credibility if the person complaining was actually contributing something or I was the only one who made my suggestion.

Yeah thats the thing. His posts have been edited a bunch of times but my sense is he's didn't see the alternatives as solutions.

Game design is not simple:)

Mike

[NakedWeasel]

Nah, I'm just here enjoying my time off, doing what I love to do with people who share similar interests. I'll get back to that, because that's more fun than irritable game producers, and their high-strung fan base... Have a nice day, gentlemen.

[Stevechase]

Mike


What does that even have to do with anything. WHAT THE!! Are you questioning my integrity now? Mike come on your representing this game to the forum. Honestly I expect better from you. If I edited them I did so immediatly after posting because I saw somehting might not make sense. And the way my words have been twisted here I'm a little paranoid now to make sure I don't offend anyone. Editing a post is now suspicisous? And I certainly have never edited any post after someone else has already seen it and commented, if that is what you are implying (you should be able to compare the time stamps on the edits vs the next post). I cannot believe I am even to explaining such things. It seems there is some intolerance for varied opinons on this forum. I have attacked no one. Nor have I tried to personally denigrate any of you. I have treated you with respect. But you attack my integrity because I suggest there is more reliance on the scripting than AI ability (which I still believe). That dosen't mean I think you are a liar or don't know what you are talking about. I know you know far more than me. So can't we just agree to disagree. I am truly astounded perhaps this is not the community I thought nor the game. I never would have thought I would say that.


I had to edit this post because like an idiot I selected the wrong person to quote. Don't want create any extra suspiscion. Just sayin.

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: NakedWeasel

Nah, I'm just here enjoying my time off, doing what I love to do with people who share similar interests. I'll get back to that, because that's more fun than irritable game producers, and their high-strung fan base... Have a nice day, gentlemen.

Right and there is no place here for people who have to excuse themselves from insulting a gender, race etc. before they say something. Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you.

ORIGINAL: NakedWeasel

At the risk of offending our female grognards, Are you guys PMSing? [:D]

Adios!

Mike

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: Stevechase



Mike


What does that even have to do with anything. WHAT THE!! Are you questioning my integrity now? Mike come on your representing this game to the forum. Honestly I expect better from you. If I edited them I did so immediatly after posting because I saw somehting might not make sense. And the way my words have been twisted here I'm a little paranoid now to make sure I don't offend anyone. Editing a post is now suspicisous? And I certainly have never edited any post after someone else has already seen it and commented, if that is what you are implying (you should be able to compare the time stamps on the edits vs the next post). I cannot believe I am even to explaining such things. It seems there is some intolerance for varied opinons on this forum. I have attacked no one. Nor have I tried to personally denigrate any of you. I have treated you with respect. But you attack my integrity because I suggest there is more reliance on the scripting than AI ability (which I still believe). That dosen't mean I think you are a liar or don't know what you are talking about. I know you know far more than me. So can't we just agree to disagree. I am truly astounded perhaps this is not the community I thought nor the game. I never would have thought I would say that.


I had to edit this post because like an idiot I selected the wrong person to quote. Don't want create any extra suspiscion. Just sayin.

Okay you edited your posts because you knew something was wrong with them... I agree this has gone way to far though and that we disagree.

Bottom line is this is our game however we try to make the best decisions we possibly can for all on things. This comes from playing the game and listening to players. We have a right to not to agree with your opinion, not do something and we don't have to take direct or indirect attacks on our methods. If an alternative solution is provided it may not be wrong but just not what you think is a solution. If you can't deal with that or feel like we're not tolerating your opinion I'm real sorry about that.


Thanks!

Mike