USCGC Haida

[Rio Bravo]

Good early morning.

My father was in WWII and spent time on the United States Coast Guard Cutter the U.S.C.G.C. Haida. His service record (set forth under my AAR entitled "The War College) is interesting. The Haida was in the North Pacific Theater during WWII.

I have tried to find the Haida under the ship listing, but so far have been unsuccessful.

I am wondering if I am simply missing finding the Haida in WITPAE Scenario 2, or whether Coast Guard Cutters were intentionally left out of the game, or if it was an oversight due to so many ships, aircraft, and troops that had to be accounted for.

In any event, you guys have done an awesome job with WITPAE.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[wdolson]

The Babes scenarios add a lot of the smaller ships that were left out of the original game. They are a mod done by some of the original development team for AE, but are not official scenarios.

It might be in there.

Bill

[HansBolter]

It is and in BTS which is based on Babes.

I believe it has a sister ship, the Onodoga (sp?) which is also in Babes.

Great escort ships!

[spence]

Hate to say it but the ship pictured under your name doesn't look like the Haida but rather like a Treasury Class/327 footer (about 80 ft longer than the Haida). The Haida was a one of a kind cutter in the Pacific; her sisters saw a lot of action in the North Atlantic though vs German U-boats.

The Onondaga was another one of a kind in the Pacific (and smaller still) cutter which is in DaBabes database.

WitP:AE is not the best source for info on USCG cutters serving in the Pacific. Some small cutters are included but some larger ones of longer range and greater capability are omitted: most importantly the 165 ftr's, two of which sank Uboats relatively early in the war on the East/Gulf Coasts.

The largest cutter, USCGC Taney, is included but IRL it got transferred to the Atlantic in late 1942 (and got a completely unique AAA suite while serving there). Both the transfer and the refit are not in the WitP:AE database. In the end it got a second refit as an AGC (as did all of its sisters and ended up in the Pacific during 1945.

It is also of note that all Coast Guard cutters have pretty shabby experience ratings even though the Coast Guard conducted extended real operations in the 20's and early 30's during the "Rum War". The USCG even took over operation of 30 USN DDs in the late 20s to help. Meanwhile the rest of the Navy waited for sunny days so that they could pretend to re-fight the Battle of Jutland.

[spence]

The USCG Historian's website can provide a wealth of information about the USCG in WW2 in both oceans.

Here's the entry on USCGC Haida: http://www.uscg.mil/history/webcutters/Haida_1921.asp

Pictures too.

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The Babes scenarios add a lot of the smaller ships that were left out of the original game. They are a mod done by some of the original development team for AE, but are not official scenarios.

It might be in there.

Bill

Thank you for responding, Bill.

My eyes were getting tired looking for the Haida on the ship availability list.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

It is and in BTS which is based on Babes.

I believe it has a sister ship, the Onodoga (sp?) which is also in Babes.

Great escort ships!

Hans-

Thank you.

I will have to check out the Babes one day.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: spence

The USCG Historian's website can provide a wealth of information about the USCG in WW2 in both oceans.

Here's the entry on USCGC Haida: http://www.uscg.mil/history/webcutters/Haida_1921.asp

Pictures too.

Spence-

Thank you for the information and the link.

I got the photo online somewhere, as well as some other photos of the Haida. And, you could very well be right that the one on my avatar isn't the Haida. The Haida was an old ship and reminded me of the ship in The Sand Pebbles. In one photo of the Haida it looks so old. I am going to have to try to get another photo of the Haida for my avatar photo. I'm just not good with resizing, etc.

Anyways, here is some interesting information on my pa's service record and the Haida. They sure didn't pay much in those days. *laughing*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DEDICATION

This After Action Report is dedicated to Monty Earl Montagne, Sr. (02/26/23-02/19/99).

My father enlisted in the United States Coast Guard on July 28, 1942 at Omaha, Nebraska. He served his country during WWII until his discharge at Long Beach, California on September 13, 1945. His pay rate at the time of discharge was $119.70 month.

He is entitled to the American Theater of Operations Ribbon, European Theater of Operations ribbon, Asiatic-Pacific Theater of Operations ribbon and at discharge was issued a Good Conduct Medal, Honorable Discharge button, blue Honorable Service lapel button, and travel pay at the rate of five cents per mile ($91.55) for travel from Long Beach back to Omaha.

He held the following ratings: Apprentice Seaman, Seaman 2c, Seaman 1c, Sonarman 3c, Sonarman 2c, and Sonarman 1c. He completed Sound Operation School and he turned down a promotion offered to him because he didn’t want to boss his buddies around (*laughing*).

His tour of duty is as follows:

07/28/42: Enlistment date
08/08/42: CGTS Alameda, California
10/19/42: USCGC Haida, Bering Sea and Arctic Ocean
04/01/45: CG Bks, New Cham St., New York City, New York
04/03/45: Manhattan Beach, Brooklyn, New York
04/05/45: U.S.S. Chambers (DE-391, Edsell Class), North Atlantic and the Mediterranean Sea.
09/11/45: U.S.C.G. Discharge Center, Long Beach, California
09/13/45: Honorably Discharged

My pa had a close call one time while on Sonar duty. He tracked a torpedo that went right under his ship. I can’t remember where he was when this happened, but by looking at his tour of duty record, I suspect that he was aboard the USCGC Haida.

The USCGC Haida was built in 1921 at Oakland, California at a cost of $775,00.00. The length was 240 feet, the beam 39 feet, and the displacement 1,780 tons. It had a steel hull.

After the war, my pa received a Bachelors degree in biology from South Dakota State and was a Wildlife Biologist for the United States Forest Service managing the wildlife and their habitat on the Lassen, Tahoe, and Los Padres National Forests. Pa worked hard to help preserve the following species: The Lahotten Cutthroat Trout, California Condor, and Hybrid Double Blunt-Nosed Leopard Lizard.

Rest in peace, pa.

[HansBolter]

I double checked my memory over the weekend and Haida and Onodaga are indeed sister ships of the Lake class in Babes and BTS.

The scenarios may not have them correct, but I was sure they were the same ship type with the same stats in game.

[spence]

As mentioned WItP:AE and all of its permutations are not good sources of information regarding USCG units in WW2.

The USCGC Haida was 240 ft in length, displaced almost 2000 tons, had a top speed of over 16 kts and carried no less than 2 5"/51s (she underwent some refits) as well as various ASW weapons systems.

The Onondaga was 165 ft in length, displaced just over 1000 tons, had a top speed of 12.8 kts and carried a pair of 3 inch/50s in its final incarnation.

Both were named after Native American tribes (the Haida was not a Lake Class Cutter) but were otherwise completely different classes with with very different capabilities. Both were used as escorts in Alaskan waters but neither accomplished anything especially remarkable as far as the war was concerned. CGC Onondaga was present when the Japanese bombed Dutch Harbor, it expended a fair amount of ammo but accomplished nothing much as far as repelling the attack. Neither did it suffer any damage or any casualties.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: spence

As mentioned WItP:AE and all of its permutations are not good sources of information regarding USCG units in WW2.

The USCGC Haida was 240 ft in length, displaced almost 2000 tons, had a top speed of over 16 kts and carried no less than 2 5"/51s (she underwent some refits) as well as various ASW weapons systems.

The Onondaga was 165 ft in length, displaced just over 1000 tons, had a top speed of 12.8 kts and carried a pair of 3 inch/50s in its final incarnation.

Both were named after Native American tribes (the Haida was not a Lake Class Cutter) but were otherwise completely different classes with with very different capabilities. Both were used as escorts in Alaskan waters but neither accomplished anything especially remarkable as far as the war was concerned. CGC Onondaga was present when the Japanese bombed Dutch Harbor, it expended a fair amount of ammo but accomplished nothing much as far as repelling the attack. Neither did it suffer any damage or any casualties.

You mistake my intent. My intent was to clarify what they are in the game, not to use the game as a source of what they really were.

[spence]

I recognize your intent...being an old Coastie I just think the USCG got short shrift by the developers.

Some examples:

In 1941 there were no draftees in the USCG. Although there were new sailors the majority of the crews of the ships were long term professionals. The tasks assigned to the USCG were simply not "line of battle" type tasks and had little fame/glory attached.

The CGC Taney was a bigger ship than any US DD in the fleet in 1941. Its CO was a Commander (O-5) who had served during the "Rum War" in the 20's both chasing rum runners and sailing in the worst kind of weather to rescue distressed ships and sailors. Yet the game gives the CGC Taney a maximum rank Lt (O-3) with correspondingly low ratings for experience along with a relatively inexperienced crew.

The USCG provided the nucleus of the small boat (landing boat) drivers assigned to APs used by both the USMC and the USA and did so BEFORE the US actually entered the war. From long experience braving the surf at small boat stations along both coasts these sailors knew how to handle a boat in the surf which was not a landmark capability of their corresponding sailors in the IJN.

Two of the first U-Boats sunk on the East Coast by any US forces were sunk by obsolete 165 ft CG cutters. The Treasury Class cutters as a class sank 5-6 Uboats in the Atlantic during the 1st year and a half - a great record compared to other classes of ASW vessels.