New to the game - Basic Questions

[rkr1958]

The Situation. Nov/Dec 1941. Poland, Holland, Denmark, Belgium, France and Yugoslavia all conquered by Germany. Germany and Italy at war with the CW, Free French and the USSR. Japan at war with China. A fairly typical situation I think.

Japan is running short on oil so the DOW the CW, invade and conquer Batavia (Java) in the Dutch East Indies. The CW player had deployed an NEI Mil in Palembang (Sumatra) and one in Batavia (Java), which was destroyed when the Japanese captured that port/city, objective hex.

I'm still confused what it takes to conquered a territory (i.e., the NEI). Expecting to have to keep on fighting to get the two oil points at Palembang, Sumatra and the Taraken and Balkpapan oil points in Bornea, as the Japanese player I was pleasantly surprised by the conquest of NEI during the conquest phase, which includes the surrender of these 4 oil points to the Japanese. So my question,

How did only the capture of Batavia, Java result in the conquest of NEI? Specifically, what conditions in the rules were met? After playing this game for almost 1 1/2 years I'm still confused on this point.

[Orm]

By capturing Batavia you had captured the NEI capital and all the factory cities in NEI and that is all it takes to conquer NEI (as well as most other countries). If a country has no factories, like NEI, then it is enough to capture the capital.

Capturing the capital and all their factory cities conquers all countries (Italy has a special rule so that it can be easier to conquer). France can be Vichied but the same rule applie to conquer France. Territories are handled differently since they do not have a capital.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: Orm

By capturing Batavia you had captured the NEI capital and all the factory cities in NEI and that is all it takes to conquer NEI (as well as most other countries). If a country has no factories, like NEI, then it is enough to capture the capital.

Capturing the capital and all their factory cities conquers all countries (Italy has a special rule so that it can be easier to conquer). France can be Vichied but the same rule applie to conquer France. Territories are handled differently since they do not have a capital.

OK, so NEI is NOT a territory? It's a country just like Holland but separate? Is there a chart, or reference, that breaks countries into countries and territories?

[paulderynck]

If it has a capital city (larger yellow dot), it is a minor country or a major power. Red center inside yellow dot = major; grey center inside yellow dot = minor. Some minors can indeed begin with other minors aligned to them, FREX Netherlands and Belgium. If they align with a major, then so do their aligned minors.

Near the end of the players manual is an explanation of the organization of the country data files. Reading that and opening the associated CSV files would allow you to extract a list of all the majors, minors and territories, if that's not already somewhere in the manuals.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

If it has a capital city (larger yellow dot), it is a minor country or a major power. Red center inside yellow dot = major; grey center inside yellow dot = minor. Some minors can indeed begin with other minors aligned to them, FREX Netherlands and Belgium. If they align with a major, then so do their aligned minors.

Near the end of the players manual is an explanation of the organization of the country data files. Reading that and opening the associated CSV files would allow you to extract a list of all the majors, minors and territories, if that's not already somewhere in the manuals.

Thanks! I will do that and hopefully better understand all this.

By the way, do others have trouble with the security image during login telling the difference between an "O" and a "0"? It took me three times to get the image correct because of this. [:(]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

If it has a capital city (larger yellow dot), it is a minor country or a major power. Red center inside yellow dot = major; grey center inside yellow dot = minor. Some minors can indeed begin with other minors aligned to them, FREX Netherlands and Belgium. If they align with a major, then so do their aligned minors.

Near the end of the players manual is an explanation of the organization of the country data files. Reading that and opening the associated CSV files would allow you to extract a list of all the majors, minors and territories, if that's not already somewhere in the manuals.

The Relationships form (Ctrl-R) can be used to see all the major powers and minor countries in the game. There is a check box at the bottom to include neutral minor countries.

Countries that are not major powers or minor countries are called Territories in WIFFE (the board game). MWIF separates them into Governed Areas and Subcountries. A couple of the latter have their own territorial units (e.g., British Somaliland and New Caledonia). But all the rest do not have any units at all. An exception is that if they are invaded by air or sea, a Notional Unit will be created for the Land Combat Resolution phase, and removed from the game at the end of that phase.

Subcountries are how MWIF handles other oddities, like the German SS units and fragments of countries: Bessarabia, Finnish Borderlands, Eastern Poland, etc.

As Paul stated, the Players Manual appendix lists all the 250+ 'countries' in the game and their classification. The CSV file gives more details, such as which countries control which other countries at the start of the war.

All the rules related to different country types is a major reason the code for this game is so complex. The relationships between countries changes throughout the game, as well as who controls what hexes within a country. That stuff was insanely dificult to code.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
All the rules related to different country types is a major reason the code for this game is so complex. The relationships between countries changes throughout the game, as well as who controls what hexes within a country. That stuff was insanely dificult to code.

I can certainly understand that because for me all "that stuff" is insanely difficult to understand! Hats off to you for not only understanding it all but being able to code it all. [&o]

P.S. What in the world did I do to make the "bolded" text subscript? That's cool!

[rkr1958]

In a global war scenario when do you stop building new ships?

[Centuur]

Depends of the ships type. I would stop building any 6 turn per cycle ships in M/A 1943. 5 turn about S/O of 1943.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

In a global war scenario when do you stop building new ships?

Mostly it depends on when you plan on ending the game. I have saved games from some players that are into the summer of 1949.

[rkr1958]

I don't have a question. I just wanted to post a screenshot of my losses from the Mar/Apr 1943 turn. Himmler's SS lost 3 crops and a division.

[rkr1958]

Now I do have a question. Could the allies convoy a captured Italian resource to the Soviet Union via West Med -> East Med -> Black Sea?

[Ur_Vile_WEdge]

You wouldn't need to go to the black sea at all. You can trace resources through neutral countries, so trace through Smyrna or Alexandretta or whatever, and go right on up.


But I don't think you could trace supply or resources through the strait while Turkey is neutral, since you can't legally move that way.


Also, regarding your earlier picture, ow for the Germans. Soviets spend an O-Chit? And I'm curious as to the Western Allied land losses. They seem a bit high for what would happen against Japan, but too low for a European reversal. Is there an interesting story there, or just attrition?

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

You wouldn't need to go to the black sea at all. You can trace resources through neutral countries, so trace through Smyrna or Alexandretta or whatever, and go right on up.


But I don't think you could trace supply or resources through the strait while Turkey is neutral, since you can't legally move that way.


Also, regarding your earlier picture, ow for the Germans. Soviets spend an O-Chit? And I'm curious as to the Western Allied land losses. They seem a bit high for what would happen against Japan, but too low for a European reversal. Is there an interesting story there, or just attrition?

Yes, interesting story and no the Soviets didn't, and have yet, to spend an o-chit.

It has to do with the allied conquest of Italy.

Check out: tm.asp?m=3880105#

The US spent 3 o-chits to make that happen. The first to get and stay ashore. The second to capture Rome and the third to capture Naples and a captured factory, other than Rome, necessary for the surrender. This is my first game where the allies had forced an Italian surrender and I didn't know the rules for who get control of what hexes. The upshot is that an entire Germany Army Group led by Kesselring and Bock were cut off from supply by Germany. The Germans mounted a relief attempt to try to reestablish supply to Kesselring and his Army Group through the Italian alps. The allies used 7 TRS and 4 AMPH units to land strong allied forces behind Kesselring's forces and and met the German relief force in the alps.

The German relief force rolled badly in Land Combat and was disorganized. And then the weather changed, putting them out of supply to. So, an SS corps and armor corps of that force was picked off. Kesselring's army Group is still relatively intact, but physically cut off by the allies and out of supply.

In the East, the Germans started off the turn with a couple of successful, or semi-successful, attacks in the south. However, the Soviets in the north did what they do ... that is, during the course of the turn (Mar/Apr 1943) they made a handful of 2:1 to 4:1 attacks (1D10) and broke the northern flank of the German lines. In do so, they manage to knock out Rommel and a few German units. Of course the Soviets took losses, but that's what they do.

In the Pacific, the US is stalled until they can inflict enough damage on the IJN to either bypass and / or capture Truk and Sipan. The US did manage to capture Kwajalein, but dare not move TRS or AMPH into contested areas until the Japanese navy can be neutralized. The USN did manage to sink 1 IJN carrier and damage a second, but more importantly, they inflicted significant losses on IJN carrier planes. In fact, at the start of this turn the Japanese had 5 pilots but only two air units (both CVPs) that they could deploy.

In China, the communist in the north are causing significant problems for the Japanese. And in, Siam, the CW had a very good chance of capturing Bangkok, but rolled a 1 which stopped them dead in their tracks.

This is one heck of a game and I'm enjoying playing it thoroughly. The game is at the point where the allies are trying to take the initiative from the Germans and Japanese, but both are still formidable and have the ability to inflict significant pain on the allies if they get too greedy or careless.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

In a global war scenario when do you stop building new ships?

Mostly it depends on when you plan on ending the game. I have saved games from some players that are into the summer of 1949.

I decide to extend the end date of my game beyond the default Jul/Aug 1945 turn. There's a lot of stuff that won't get built because it won't get into the game by the date. I believe that's a bit artificial and gamy. Realistically, the war with Japan ended in August 1945 because of the US dropped two atomic on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Even after this it took the emperor to break the tie within the war ministry for Japan to surrender unconditionally. So I've decide to play my game as if the atomic bomb wasn't dropped and the allies have to gut it out the hard way to finish off the axis.

By the way, it's definitely a nice feature to be able to change the end date after the game has started. And change it whenever and how often you wish.

[rkr1958]

Again, because of work and family demands / constraints, I'm only able to play solitaire so learning subtleties of strategy and rules for me is often like a blind squirrel finding a nut.

I think I may have found one but wanted to check with the experts here to make sure "it's a nut."

[rkr1958]

Here's the situation. It's May/June 1940, the axis have the initiative and move first. The Italians declare war on both the CW and France, take a naval, move the cruisers and battleships of the Regia Marina into the Italian Coast, Eastern and Western Med in the hopes of finding and engaging the RN and French ships there. They also move their sub fleet, consisting of 4 units to Cape St. Vincent in the hopes of finding and sinking CW CPs there.

So, the Italians start with the Eastern Med and try to initiate combat there. Neither search roll finds the other, so no combat.

The Italians then move to Cape St. Vincent. The Italians roll a search of 9 and the allies roll a 1. Great (for the allies) I think. They'll be able to avoid combat. But no, even though the Italians lost the roll and failed to find the allies they're able to engage and damage the lone French cruiser in the sea area. Both sides decided to stay and the Italians roll a search of 10 followed by a 1 for the allies. Again, though the Italian's search failed to find the allies because it's the surprise phase and the allies "found" the Italians, the Italian subs one again engage the lone French cruiser and finish off this time. The allies not wanting their convoy route through Cape St. Vincent disrupted decide to stay, only having convoys there. I admit, a bad decision, but at the time, not fully realizing the power of the surprise impulse. So round 3 for search sees the Italians rolling a 2 and the allies rolling an 8. This roll allows the Italian subs to sink 6 allied CPs and force another 3 to abort. This leaves 3 allies CPs in an area requiring 12! Realizing now that the decision to stay during a surprise impulse against them was a bad one, the CW player (that's me) decides to save the remaining 3 CPs and aborts the battle.

So the nut, I think I've found is the power of a naval during a surprise impulse to inflict damage on the other side. The worst result for the power taking the surprise impulse is for neither side to find each other during search. Even if you roll a search of 10, if the other side finds you that is good. Am I'm getting this right?

[paulderynck]

Absolutely right. Being surprised at sea or in a port attack is deadly.

Here's another nut. As the surprising player think carefully about what order to do the searches. Look for sea zones where enemy units that abort must go through other sea zones you have units in and resolve them last. This way if you miss finding the first time, you get another chance when the aborting units go through.

There are times as the Allies when you have to take your lumps in the surprise impulse because a pre-emptive DoW would cost too much US entry. I usually have a CA in the 3 or 4 box when expecting an Italian DoW in the hopes of "counter-finding" rather than letting my CPs in the zero box get massacred. You can gamble the Italian subs won't find and then hope you don't either - versus if both find then your CA may get damaged or sunk, but then you abort at the first opportunity and save your precious CPs.

If surprised, never stick around for a second round of searches.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Absolutely right. Being surprised at sea or in a port attack is deadly.

Here's another nut. As the surprising player think carefully about what order to do the searches. Look for sea zones where enemy units that abort must go through other sea zones you have units in and resolve them last. This way if you miss finding the first time, you get another chance when the aborting units go through.

There are times as the Allies when you have to take your lumps in the surprise impulse because a pre-emptive DoW would cost too much US entry. I usually have a CA in the 3 or 4 box when expecting an Italian DoW in the hopes of "counter-finding" rather than letting my CPs in the zero box get massacred. You can gamble the Italian subs won't find and then hope you don't either - versus if both find then your CA may get damaged or sunk, but then you abort at the first opportunity and save your precious CPs.

If surprised, never stick around for a second round of searches.

Noted! As the allies I should have aborted after the first round. I won't make that mistake again.

[rkr1958]

For initiating a naval combat, does it make which unit is used? For example, a cruiser in the 0 box or a carrier in the 4 box? Any difference?