Other Invasion bugs?

[TeaLeaf]

The situation:
Japanese invasion forces in South China Sea are ivading!
The weather is fine in the North Monsoon zone, USA and CW are surprised and
all allied (notional) units in this sea zone are out of supply (or should be), because the limited overseas supply optional rule is in effect and there are no allied CONVs/TRS/AMPH units that can provide supply into this Sea Zone.

The possible Bug:
SE of Manila there are several hexes where a notional unit does not have '0' combat factors. Same for almost all possible hexes in Malaya (which, afaik, does not contain primary supply sources for CW notionals, only secondary which are OOS).

To check this, Pick up the Japanese 1stINF from the 2-box section and hover it over various possible invasion sites.
All defending notional units adjacent to this Sea Zone that are not in a city should have 0 defense factors (1 +1 for invading from '2'box -1OOS -1Surprised).
Or am I missing some modifiers?

And what exactly does it mean in the RAW that hexes can only be invaded if it has an all sea hexside that must (at least partially) touch upon the sea area where the TRS is located??
If this means it must be adjacent to a hex-dot, there are a lot of hexes south of Manila that can be invaded but should not be (most all sea hexsides that are not touching a hexdot).
I thought I knew this rule well enough to understand why Manila can't be directly invaded (it has no all-sea hexsides), but now I'm not so sure anymore...

[joshuamnave]

The notional units SE of Manila are Filipino units, not American, and are supplied by Manila. Same concept with the Malaysian notionals. See 2.4.2 "A primary supply source for a unit is: Any friendly city in the unit's unconquered home country..." and rule 11.4 "The notional unit is the same nationality as ... the major power or minor country that controls the hex."

[paulderynck]

If you hover over the hex in question, the blue bar in the Main Form will show which sea zones are adjacent and will tell you if an invasion from one of them cannot be made.

[TeaLeaf]

Yes, that is exactly what gets me confused:
If the notional unit in Philipines is Philippino, then I can understand it can be in supply by Manila.
I thought the Notionals there were American (the controlling Major Power). In which case they would be OOS.

Same with Malaya. I thought the Notionals there should be CW. Since Malaya is not a CW home country, CW Notionals should be OOS there, or so I thought... [;)]
But if indeed the Notionals there are 'Malaysians' then I can understand them being in supply!

I find this particular distinction between who controls a hex and what nationality the notional units will be, rather confusing.
Especially because it is stated that the notional unit is the same nationality as the MP or MC that controls it.
In case of the philippines; the USA controls it, but the notionals are Philippino's [X(].

Is there an easy rule of thumb to determine nationality of notionals?

[TeaLeaf]

Thanks, but I understand that already [:D]. I thought the game might have gotten it wrong.
What confuses me, is that the rules state that a hex can only be invaded if it has an all-sea hexside that touches the Sea Zone the TRS/AMPH is in.
I don't understand the underscored part because I interpret that as the all sea hexside must be adjacent to a Sea-hex (a darker blue hex with a hexdot in it).

According to my interpretation, the hex directly to the SE of Manila does not border a sea hex and thus should not be 'invadable'. Same for the hex directly NE of Plymouth.

I though there was some logic in that, for the same reason why ships cannot pass through some straits/canals...
But I guess my interpretation is incorrect then [;)].

[Centuur]

Easy thumb: a minor country which is still controlled by whoever controlled the country at the start of SO 1939 has it's hexes guarded against invasions and paradrops with their own notional units. A country which has been liberated has the same capability.

Second thing:

Here is RAW:

You may only invade an enemy controlled coastal hex that has at least
1 all-sea hexside (at least part, but not necessarily all, of this coastal
hexside must touch upon the sea area where the TRS is located).

What is an all sea hexside. It is an hexside which hasn't any portion of land in it. That doesn't mean it needs to be adjacent to a hex containing only a hex dot...

So take a look at the map around Denmark. The port of Aarhus has an all sea hexside (even two). So it can be invaded.

Now take a look at the border hex in Germany with Denmark (the one with the word "Canal" in it). It has an all sea hexside, so it can be invaded. However that hexside doesn't touch upon a hex which is in the Baltic. And since this hex doesn't have an all sea hexside next to the Baltic Sea, you can only invade the hex out of the North Sea and not out of the Baltic...

[TeaLeaf]

Thanks for the explanations, Peter!

I think the wording of the RAW (the part in between brackets) is a little deficient for a 'nitpicker' like me [;)].
Sorry for that.

"You may only invade an enemy controlled coastal hex that has at least
1 all-sea hexside (at least part, but not necessarily all, of this coastal
hexside must touch upon the sea area where the TRS is located)."

I would just say that (at least part of) the all-sea hexside must be in the sea area where the TRS is located.
It is the "touch upon" that got me confused.
Thanks again for the explanations!

[paulderynck]

The "touch upon" is also for hexes like Hong Kong. The blue line is drawn so a TRS/Amph/SCS in the South China Sea cannot debark invaders into Hong Kong even though there's a full sea hexside along that boundary. You can only invade it from the China Sea.

It also means there are cases where you can invade a coastal hex that has a full sea hexside adjacent to a different sea zone and a partial sea hexside is the only one adjacent to the sea zone where your TRS/Amph/SCS is.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

As to which hexes can be invaded from which sea areas, I recommend studying the hexes in Denmark & Germany around Kiel which border both the North Sea and the Baltic Sea. If you move the cursor over individual hexes (zoom level 8 works best for this) the Main form's information on the adjacent sea areas will show which can and which cannot be invaded from which sea areas.

I find examples to be a much better tool for learning rules than the English language.[:)]