Freedom of Speech

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bo
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Freedom of Speech

Post by bo »

Many Americans and other nationalities have died for that wording in our Constitution. " Freedom of Speech" It must be forever preserved.[;)]

"The only thing necessary for evil to exist is for good people to remain silent." [:(]

Edmund Burke





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warspite1
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by warspite1 »

bo are you referring to this forum?
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

bo are you referring to this forum?


Shocked just shocked that I may be referring to this "OPEN" forum [Casablanca 1942]

No way I was just sitting home last night reading the US constitution about freedom of speech and on the internet I saw this quote by Edmund Burke. I found the quote quite alarming to say the least. [;)]

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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by joshuamnave »

The US Constitution protects individuals from having their freedom of speech restricted by the government. It does not and never has protected anyone against private restrictions.

Put in other terms, in the US you have the right to say whatever you want, but Matrix doesn't have to let you say it on their property.
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

The US Constitution protects individuals from having their freedom of speech restricted by the government. It does not and never has protected anyone against private restrictions.

Put in other terms, in the US you have the right to say whatever you want, but Matrix doesn't have to let you say it on their property.

Why are you assuming I am referring to Matrix? [;)]

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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by etsadler »

From a legal point of view that is 100% accurate Zartacla. The Constitution doesn't restrict private individuals.

Having said that, the First Amendment enshrines in Law a perspective that was near and dear to the hearts of the Founding Fathers, which is freedom of expression in all its forms. While the Constitution, in this case, only restricts government action ("Congress shall make no law...") it hopefully also stands as an ideal that we can all try to live up to.
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by Jagdtiger14 »

Thank you Bo!!!
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by Joseignacio »

Law may not say that, but before the law there are morals, because out of a sense of what is good and what is bad, laws are voted (at least ideally).

So, even if the law doesn't support liberty of expression everywhere, the ethic does. And that quote is not a legal one but an ethic one, and as such can be applied to any part of our existence.

Having said that:

1 Matrix forums (at least this one) are much more permissive than others, especially those held by sellers about their products. whether this is Steve´s or Erik's virtue, or it just happens that they don't care, so they don't know...

2 It's sad that the permittivity of the forum narrows.

3 It's even sadder that we are taken for fools about the reason why a disturbing thread is closed.
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Law may not say that, but before the law there are morals, because out of a sense of what is good and what is bad, laws are voted (at least ideally).

So, even if the law doesn't support liberty of expression everywhere, the ethic does. And that quote is not a legal one but an ethic one, and as such can be applied to any part of our existence.

Having said that:

1 Matrix forums (at least this one) are much more permissive than others, especially those held by sellers about their products. whether this is Steve´s or Erik's virtue, or it just happens that they don't care, so they don't know...

2 It's sad that the permittivity of the forum narrows.

3 It's even sadder that we are taken for fools about the reason why a disturbing thread is closed.

Ah my friend Jose, I need you guarding my back, [;)]

1- I cannot disagree or agree as in all my years of looking at Matrix's posts I have never been involved as I have on the MWIF posts, so if they have been permissive about this post fine more power to them. In fact of my 3644 posts on the Matrix's forums, 3643 have been on the MWIF forum or close to that [&:].

2- Agreed 100% I have made some posts that are a little hairy, but I am inquisitive person and I like to hear how things are done, and I made a post about Matrix and ADG that would only bring speculation as suggested by a very knowledgeable poster and I agree with him and deleted the post, when I am wrong I am wrong but some times I need to be shown that.

What I am about to say might not be totally correct but I was stunned by the gag order put on that thread by Erik, as option 47 was much nastier than this post. Other posts were way more bitter than this one, I feel Erik in all his wisdom had the right to do it but feel he should not have.

I feel a lot of this has to do with one poster who speaks his mind sometimes irreverently to get his point across, he is entitled to his opinions and if they are so gruesome than ban him from all the forums but do not put a gag on his mouth or any others here on this particular post, very unprofessional IMO.

3-[;)] well said Jose about being taken for fools by the closure of this post, I have an opinion about why this post was closed by checking post # 100 State of the game 2015, but I could be wrong, and truly hope I am wrong.

Bo
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by brian brian »

I recently read a succinct summary of Freedom of Speech and it's far, far, more important application to the world today and incitements to violence. The US Government is limited by the Constitution in possible limiting of Freedom of Speech in public. A media company, even an American one and let alone a global one, has no such restriction and is thus not prohibited from keeping people from using a privately funded media platform to say things like "Kill __________"

I think Twitter and many other platforms (YouTube) will increasingly realize the drawbacks of unlimited Free Speech.
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by Orm »

I think that the thread was closed because of insults and not because of the topic. It was all in line with the current Matrix praxis. That another thread with "worse" insults is not yet locked is because it has not caught their attention.
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: Orm

I think that the thread was closed because of insults and not because of the topic. It was all in line with the current Matrix praxis. That another thread with "worse" insults is not yet locked is because it has not caught their attention.

I am not really assured that you are correct or incorrect, I believe Matrix should at least warn a person or persons to desist or we [Matrix] will take action against you or the post topic. How come this one caught their attention. There was no warning![:(]

I am not immune to feeling down when I am criticized for my beliefs on these forums but I am not thin skinned either but when I listen to a disgusted fed up poster with the time element of MWIF and a few other things that make sense I can see where it is coming from. I agree with many of the things he said but not necessarily the way he said them.

Matrix and the programmer should not ever be immune from criticism by anyone, if no one speaks up then, they Matrix and the programmer think they are on the right path and everything is honky dory [:(] and we know from the time element and the state of the game that it is not honky dory at this point in time.

Personally I enjoy the back and forth of the posters from many different nations, I have learned many new things in my older years due to these posts and I know that most posters here will always be glad to help you if you are in need about some question Of MWIF, that is the plus of these posts. That far offsets some of the negativity found here.



I feel the post should be reopened with a warning if necessary.

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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: bo
ORIGINAL: Orm

I think that the thread was closed because of insults and not because of the topic. It was all in line with the current Matrix praxis. That another thread with "worse" insults is not yet locked is because it has not caught their attention.

I am not really assured that you are correct or incorrect, I believe Matrix should at least warn a person or persons to desist or we [Matrix] will take action against you or the post topic. How come this one caught their attention. There was no warning![:(]

I am not immune to feeling down when I am criticized for my beliefs on these forums but I am not thin skinned either but when I listen to a disgusted fed up poster with the time element of MWIF and a few other things that make sense I can see where it is coming from. I agree with many of the things he said but not necessarily the way he said them.

Matrix and the programmer should not ever be immune from criticism by anyone, if no one speaks up then, they Matrix and the programmer think they are on the right path and everything is honky dory [:(] and we know from the time element and the state of the game that it is not honky dory at this point in time.

I feel the post should be reopened with a warning if necessary.

Bo
warspite1

bo I guarantee that the thread was closed down for the right reasons - albeit the name calling and unpleasantness had abated by the time it was noted.

If you were to start up another thread stating the same things - but without the name calling (i.e. within forum rules) - it would not be closed down. If Matrix were incapable of taking criticism they would not allow the forums in the first place.

In my time here I've have only known Matrix to be fair in this regard. Give it a go if you don't believe me.
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by bo »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: bo
ORIGINAL: Orm

I think that the thread was closed because of insults and not because of the topic. It was all in line with the current Matrix praxis. That another thread with "worse" insults is not yet locked is because it has not caught their attention.

I am not really assured that you are correct or incorrect, I believe Matrix should at least warn a person or persons to desist or we [Matrix] will take action against you or the post topic. How come this one caught their attention. There was no warning![:(]

I am not immune to feeling down when I am criticized for my beliefs on these forums but I am not thin skinned either but when I listen to a disgusted fed up poster with the time element of MWIF and a few other things that make sense I can see where it is coming from. I agree with many of the things he said but not necessarily the way he said them.

Matrix and the programmer should not ever be immune from criticism by anyone, if no one speaks up then, they Matrix and the programmer think they are on the right path and everything is honky dory [:(] and we know from the time element and the state of the game that it is not honky dory at this point in time.

I feel the post should be reopened with a warning if necessary.

Bo
warspite1

bo I guarantee that the thread was closed down for the right reasons - albeit the name calling and unpleasantness had abated by the time it was noted.

If you were to start up another thread stating the same things - but without the name calling (i.e. within forum rules) - it would not be closed down. If Matrix were incapable of taking criticism they would not allow the forums in the first place.

In my time here I've have only known Matrix to be fair in this regard. Give it a go if you don't believe me.


You could be right, read Jose's comment about that. My problem might be that I am not thin skinned about comments as long as no foul language is used, that is no reference to you or any one else here.

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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by WarHunter »

Thread start 5/26/2015 4:51:45 PM
Thead locked 6/3/2015 5:58:14 PM
Last post by Crussdaddy 6/2/2015 5:26:40 PM
Last post by warspite1 6/2/2015 5:38:11 PM

My reading of the locked thread pointed to Crussdaddy and warspite1 having a spirited and confrontational exchange and assume this was why the thread was locked.

If it was important to police the thread in question. Why wait until after the exchange was done and finished.
Pretty much the whole topic had died and was going into no bump land. Except now it has become a matyr thread.
Placed under lock and forever enshrined by the power that seeks silence.

Now we have something else to grouse about. Not that another topic is bad thing.
Just seems like unnecessary smoke.

If past topics had seen exchanges like the one locked instantly acted on.
This would be a non issue. An example of this would be political topics in general.
They are not allowed. period.

Now a cloud of suspicion has gathered. It will hang around like mustard gas.
Threads created to question can now be locked on the pretext of trolling.

The power to silence is not a freedom. It belongs to those who seek control of criticism.
Regardless of the stated motive.
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

Thread start 5/26/2015 4:51:45 PM
Thead locked 6/3/2015 5:58:14 PM
Last post by Crussdaddy 6/2/2015 5:26:40 PM
Last post by warspite1 6/2/2015 5:38:11 PM

My reading of the locked thread pointed to Crussdaddy and warspite1 having a spirited and confrontational exchange and assume this was why the thread was locked.

If it was important to police the thread in question. Why wait until after the exchange was done and finished.
Pretty much the whole topic had died and was going into no bump land. Except now it has become a matyr thread.
Placed under lock and forever enshrined by the power that seeks silence.

Now we have something else to grouse about. Not that another topic is bad thing.
Just seems like unnecessary smoke.

If past topics had seen exchanges like the one locked instantly acted on.
This would be a non issue. An example of this would be political topics in general.
They are not allowed. period.

Now a cloud of suspicion has gathered. It will hang around like mustard gas.
Threads created to question can now be locked on the pretext of trolling.

The power to silence is not a freedom. It belongs to those who seek control of criticism.
Regardless of the stated motive.
warspite1

This is simply not true. If you don't believe me test it out.

Yes, as I said earlier, there was actually no need to lock it when it was locked because the name calling had blown over. However, that would have taken the moderator (Erik in this case) a while to read the thread from scratch and see where it had gone and where it was likely going.

The fact is, this place is so dead there is no real need for a moderator. Steve I believe is the only moderator assigned, and frankly we would all prefer he be coding and de-bugging than moderating a half dead forum.
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WarHunter
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by WarHunter »

I'm not sure what you feel is not true. My whole post, part of it, what part? What am I missing?
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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by zakblood »

no such thing apart from in your mind as freedom of speech anyway (post not a reply to anyone either), i don't own the game, and aren't here to flame anyone, but a forum is for all it's members, sometimes those in charge / command need to call a choice one way or another, while some agree others don't, this is life, life isn't and never has been fair, your parents all lied to you, some times it's better to move on and forget about the past and what has and hasn't been said and take the higher road, the one that leads to know where and move on.

i offend as often as i help, but don't mean to, it's just a word taken out of context that once typed can't be taken back once read, that's life, we all make them *(mistakes that is), but some of us don't learn by them and carry on making the same ones over and over again.

i've been a moderator on a number of forums for years, and now don't do any for many reasons, the main one is everyone thinks they are right all or most of the time, when in fact they are wrong, to admit your wrong is a step to enlightenment and tbh i'm always wrong so must be ready for nirvana now.

why post this, why not.

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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

I'm not sure what you feel is not true. My whole post, part of it, what part? What am I missing?
warspite1

The bits in bold - with the bit underlined most of all.
My reading of the locked thread pointed to Crussdaddy and warspite1 having a spirited and confrontational exchange and assume this was why the thread was locked. [Correct]

If it was important to police the thread in question [Correct]. Why wait until after the exchange was done and finished.[See my post]
Pretty much the whole topic had died and was going into no bump land.[See my post] Except now it has become a matyr thread.
Placed under lock and forever enshrined by the power that seeks silence.

Now we have something else to grouse about. Not that another topic is bad thing.
Just seems like unnecessary smoke.

If past topics had seen exchanges like the one locked instantly acted on.
This would be a non issue. An example of this would be political topics in general. [Did not understand what you meant because of the first sentence in the paragraph]
They are not allowed. period.

Now a cloud of suspicion has gathered. It will hang around like mustard gas.
Threads created to question can now be locked on the pretext of trolling.


The power to silence is not a freedom. It belongs to those who seek control of criticism.
Regardless of the stated motive.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: Freedom of Speech

Post by WarHunter »

warspite1,

Lets start this off with lets agree to disagree in the spirit of freedom to choose.[:)]

You choose to believe why the thread was locked. I don't believe it.
Please don't make this into a convert me to your point of view. I won't play that.

My only intention was to voice an opinion from my point of view. It may resonate with some. Not with you or others.

Its okay.

Lets get on with setting up a game of MWiF on Teamviewer and doing an AAR for the few who look forward to that sort of thing.

The fact we are not really on topics about MWiF makes them boring and non-constructive. [:-]

Your honored axis or allied opponent in waiting,
WarHunter

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