Rumble in the Southwest witpqs-A vs Andav-J 2011-11-29 to 2017-02-08

[HansBolter]

Incredible turn.

Must have been the most exciting turn of the game to watch the replay.

Massive, multiple surface and carrier battles all in one turn.

I'm still flabbergasted from just scrolling through the report.

Well done sir! [&o]

[Drakanel]

Well, this is massive carnage indeed. Delicious [8D]

It seems your enemy gambled on one serious incursion, to try and cause mayhem. But the results were decidedly in your favor. 5 CV, 2 CVE and one BB sunk, plus all the other smaller ships and the damaged ships (and he doesn't have anywhere to bring those, singapore cannot handle that many ships...).

You have to give the task force commander of the CVLs a medal. If not for him evading... you might have lost them all!

A pity for your battleships, but really you can't complain. All your SCTF provided vital cover for your carriers. At least they're good enough as meat shields. Or steel shields [:D]


What air carrier / surface combat assets does he have left in the area by your estimate? If they are low enough... you might even think about doing a detour and taking Singapore or at least placing it under siege. Not really urgent, it's just, I don't know. Think about it as liberating occupied territories or something!!

[Rio Bravo]

Whoa!

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Sink the CV Bismarck![X(]

Where did she come from?[&:]

We had some battles in the Bismarck Sea, so I used it for one of the optionally named ships! [:D]

I figured, but would have loved to have seen some fog of war![:D]

Don't you feel sad now? You are like a big bully, kicking a kid when he is down. Wasn't Cam Ranh Bay punishment enough? This is just malicious.[:D]

[BBfanboy]

Right about now comes the inevitable Synch Bug, and all Allied successes are ephemeral FOW ...

Just Kidding! I had my fingers and eyes crossed when I typed that!

Well done, as I have come to expect from witpqs ![&o][&o][&o]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Right about now comes the inevitable Synch Bug, and all Allied successes are ephemeral FOW ...

Just Kidding! I had my fingers and eyes crossed when I typed that!

Well done, as I have come to expect from witpqs ![&o][&o][&o]

Hehe! Evil, just evil!

I posted with the full turn, not the replay anyway, so no sync bug. A sync bug would have been epic - massive replay damage versus massive in-turn damage - I would still be trying to unravel things!

I never thought I would run so many carriers dry of sorties - take heed, lads! Bad enough that a bunch of attacks in the afternoon could have wreaked three times the havoc with torpedoes as they did with the bombs they had to use, but I'm sure a number of sorties sat on deck while the armorers searched the magazine in vain for more bombs. Three carriers with zero sorties remaining, and I'm sure they didn't have 'just enough'!

[vicberg]

Wow. I don't feel so bad about stopping our game now. This is just wrong on so many levels, most importantly that the Japanese didn't win. Anything short of that is just wrong wrong wrong. The Japanese naval threat is done with a fork in it. Historically accurate. Japanese had a CA force in with the US CVE at Guadalcanal and inexplicably turned away.

Congrats!

Was exciting to read. more? More? THERE'S MORE?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Drakanel

Well, this is massive carnage indeed. Delicious [8D]

It seems your enemy gambled on one serious incursion, to try and cause mayhem. But the results were decidedly in your favor. 5 CV, 2 CVE and one BB sunk, plus all the other smaller ships and the damaged ships (and he doesn't have anywhere to bring those, singapore cannot handle that many ships...).

You have to give the task force commander of the CVLs a medal. If not for him evading... you might have lost them all!

A pity for your battleships, but really you can't complain. All your SCTF provided vital cover for your carriers. At least they're good enough as meat shields. Or steel shields [:D]


What air carrier / surface combat assets does he have left in the area by your estimate? If they are low enough... you might even think about doing a detour and taking Singapore or at least placing it under siege. Not really urgent, it's just, I don't know. Think about it as liberating occupied territories or something!!

Yes, but we both gambled. I got caught on mine but only a little bit. How? I ran several carriers dry of sorties (which is a hugely bad idea) and I had my forces split up enough that several major groups could not support each other.

I consciously did both of those things. My reason was to keep the momentum going faster than the Empire could counter, in this case by getting the additional units into Soc Trang at once and keep the (other) additional units going into Cam Ranh Bay, both things at the same time.

If I had pulled more carriers and surface forces to the Soc Trang area then the IJN could have sprinted east and hit troop convoys bound for CRB, unless I pulled those convoys back. And obviously the convoys unloading at Soc Trang needed cover, unless I pulled those convoys back. From the Allied side, the naval battles this turn were all about getting troops ashore ASAP.

The CVLs: oh, my. I was wondering just how many of them would be able to launch planes when the surface battle was over. They only have DD escorts IIRC. I knew they were light but needed the flexibility of keeping the CL/CA in SCTF. And my original intention (when they left Manado) was for the CVL to be split up among the CV TF as usual.

Singapore is a worthy target, I just don't have the land power to tackle it right now. The more Imperials I can cut off and destroy up north the easier Singapore will be when I can tackle it.

The BBs did what was needed. I think they shot rather poorly. I just don't recall the last time I checked those ship COs, but the TF leaders were quite solid. One of them was Lee! He survived and is in charge of 3x damaged DD heading to Manado. I'll get him in charge of the two Iwoas that are currently in CV TFs. The basic issue might just have been better IJN crew quality for all the combat they've seen and what they start with. At least Kongo was put down. I hope the other two are out of main gun ammo.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Incredible turn.

Must have been the most exciting turn of the game to watch the replay.

Massive, multiple surface and carrier battles all in one turn.

I'm still flabbergasted from just scrolling through the report.

Well done sir! [&o]

Thanks!

I was (seriously) wondering if the forum would take a post that long. [:D]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: vicberg

Wow. I don't feel so bad about stopping our game now. This is just wrong on so many levels, most importantly that the Japanese didn't win. Anything short of that is just wrong wrong wrong. The Japanese naval threat is done with a fork in it. Historically accurate. Japanese had a CA force in with the US CVE at Guadalcanal and inexplicably turned away.

Congrats!

Was exciting to read. more? More? THERE'S MORE?

If you're only up to Guadalcanal, then HELL YES, there's more! I don't remember that battle, maybe there were low on ammo sort of thing.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Sink the CV Bismarck![X(]

Where did she come from?[&:]

We had some battles in the Bismarck Sea, so I used it for one of the optionally named ships! [:D]

I figured, but would have loved to have seen some fog of war![:D]

Don't you feel sad now? You are like a big bully, kicking a kid when he is down. Wasn't Cam Ranh Bay punishment enough? This is just malicious.[:D]

Sad? Um, let me see, uh, mmmm, oh well - NO! [:D]

[vicberg]

Come on George (if I remember your name right...apologies if I'm showing my age, but don't worry, I forget my name often and my cell phone number, always my cell phone number),
you should KNOW that Richard E. Lee is only good in defensive battles.

[vicberg]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: vicberg

Wow. I don't feel so bad about stopping our game now. This is just wrong on so many levels, most importantly that the Japanese didn't win. Anything short of that is just wrong wrong wrong. The Japanese naval threat is done with a fork in it. Historically accurate. Japanese had a CA force in with the US CVE at Guadalcanal and inexplicably turned away.

Congrats!

Was exciting to read. more? More? THERE'S MORE?

If you're only up to Guadalcanal, then HELL YES, there's more! I don't remember that battle, maybe there were low on ammo sort of thing.

The JP TF leader simply lost nerve.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: vicberg

Come on George (if I remember your name right...apologies if I'm showing my age, but don't worry, I forget my name often and my cell phone number, always my cell phone number),
you should KNOW that Richard E. Lee is only good in defensive battles.

Do you mean Willis Lee? 'Ching' Lee was his nickname from the US Naval Academy because of his affection for the far east.

I should have checked the ships' captains, but I probably did a long time back. It pays to verify none have been 'rotated home' or whatever happens.

[cdnice]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Today's ship losses. Obviously this is 'confirmed' and certainly more ships on both sides are at great risk.

[X(]Bloody hell!!! [&o]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: vicberg

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: vicberg

Wow. I don't feel so bad about stopping our game now. This is just wrong on so many levels, most importantly that the Japanese didn't win. Anything short of that is just wrong wrong wrong. The Japanese naval threat is done with a fork in it. Historically accurate. Japanese had a CA force in with the US CVE at Guadalcanal and inexplicably turned away.

Congrats!

Was exciting to read. more? More? THERE'S MORE?

If you're only up to Guadalcanal, then HELL YES, there's more! I don't remember that battle, maybe there were low on ammo sort of thing.

The JP TF leader simply lost nerve.

Don't think the USN had any CVEs at the time of Guadalcanal, so I assume the battle is the Samar phase of the Battle of Leyte Gulf.

A little empathy for Admiral Kondo please - he had his flagship Atago torpedoed from under him on the way north off Palawan Island. It sank in something like 15 minutes. CA Maya was also sunk and CA Takao heavily damaged by subs at about the same time. Then he endured all day airstrikes the next day culminating in the sinking of the "unsinkable" Musashi at dusk. During a tense night he expected US PT boats and subs everywhere and thought the US would have a battle fleet blocking the entrance to San Bernardino Strait. I doubt he got any sleep.

So he exits the strait and almost immediately spots carriers, thinking they are the CVs of Halsey's Third Fleet. Almost immediately there is a confusing series of continuous small air strikes from the Avengers of Taffy 3, followed by Taffy2 and Taffy 1. They start scoring hits and making his fleet dodge a lot. So he orders a free-for-all chase and his cruisers and DDs charge ahead followed by the BBs at best speed. Suddenly out of their smoke screen US DDs and a DE appear and launch torps and put accurate 5"" gunfire onto the bridges of several ships, forcing them to turn away. More airstrikes, more hit ships - CA Kumano loses her bow. CA Chokai is hit hard as are CAs Chikuma and Suzuya. Surely there are USN cruisers and BBs causing all this damage!

His flagship Yamato has been forced to run away from the battle by a salvo of torpedoes that chase her for 20 minutes. Kondo loses visual contact with his fleet. Messages are confusing - he cannot get a picture of what is happening. And by now the CVs he believes he is chasing must have a massive strike prepared, similar to the ones that sank Musashi. His sleep-deprived brain cannot make sense of it so he recalls his fleet to see what the heck is left and decide what to do. Unknown to him, CA Tone and his DDs had finally closed to killing range of Taffy 3 and had shot up Gambier Bay just at the moment he recalled them.

So Yes, Kondo lost his nerve, and made a poor decision to order a general chase, but no commander could have expected that three US DDs and a DE could put up such a battle that it stalled 5 BBs, 5 CAs, + CLs and about 15 DDs! This armchair admiral is sure he could not have done any better!

[Drakanel]

Hmm a small noobish question about something that bugs me. I noticed earlier (but I only thought about asking now) that in general you, and many other players, tend to have multiple task forces for bombardment.

I understand the importance of dividing up surface ships in order to have more sea coverage / present more targets for the enemy, more intercept chances and such.

But strictly from a BOMBARDMENT point of view, do multiple task forces bombard better than, say, a 20 cruisers single bombardment TF ?
I don't remember reading anything about this in the manual but then again, in this game a lot of things are not written in the manual XD

[obvert]

It's more about the size of task force should they meet another surface group, which they could do on their way in to bombard. You don't want big unwieldy TFs especially in a night engagement. Plus with multiples you may have a better chance in case something goes wrong with one to make sure a bombardment occurs.

Nice work here over the past few turns!! [&o]

[witpqs]

What Obvert said is true. In my case I mostly split up to smaller bombardment TF because I want to bombard continuously (day after day) when possible. it really makes a difference to the disruption of the enemy troops.

And, even when I have a situation where I don't need to do that I keep the same TFs, because you can't hang onto the TF commander that you picked when you disband a TF, and they cost PP.

[Rafid]

Congratulations on your great victory! It has been most interesting and exciting, including the build up.

Something in your after battle plans stood out for me:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Four of the six CV near Soc Trang are out of sorties (22 remaining between the four of them!) and will withdraw to Jesselton in the hope that the size 6 airfield will be size 7 by the time they arrive to replenish their sorties.

I am pretty green, but as I understand it, rearming sorties is like rearming any normal naval weapon and depends on port size rather than AF size. The table in section 20.1.2.2 list sorties (as second to last) and according to it, rearming sorties requires a port level 6 or a port level 5 with 40 naval support. Rearming torpedo sorties requires port level 7 (or 6 and 160 NS).

Only replacement aircraft for the carrier airgroups are in a very small way influenced by AF size. Taking replacements requires:

ORIGINAL: Manual Section 16.2

The air unit is located on a ship in the same hex as a base with an airfield size
of 1+ (TF or at anchor) and the base has over 20000 supplies. Supplies will be
expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.

Maybe I am wrong and something changed since the printing of the manual?!