State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: brian brian
But yet I think MWiF reminds me of a famous old children's song about an ant and a rubber tree plant. When I look in the AAR threads, I see rubber tree plants moving...

hmmm, do you mind if I ask where you're from? Where I'm from we don't have a famous children's song about an ant and a rubber tree plant?

[brian brian]

whoops, it was actually sorta a Frank Sinatra song - "High Hopes" - I just associate it with hearing it and singing it in childhood:

Words & Music by Sammy Cahn & Jimmy Van Heusen
Recorded by Frank Sinatra, 1961
From the 1959 movie "Hole In The Head" (Academy Award Winner, Best Song)

the relevant verses:

Just what makes that little old ant
Think he'll move that rubber tree plant
Anyone knows an ant, can't
Move a rubber tree plant

But he's got high hopes
He's got high hopes
He's got high apple pie
In the sky hopes

So any time you're gettin' low
'Stead of lettin' go, just remember that ant
Oops, there goes another rubber tree plant

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: rosseau
Beyond that, it's all about cash flow, so my plan would be offer something that works (AI, half-maps, rules and new scenarios - take your pick) and offer a $20 expansion. I may be very wrong, but it seems like the dev is faced with "whack a mole" right now.

It's not ALL about cash flow, its also about credibility, which impacts future cash flow.

All of the features you mention (maybe other than AI) were (are?) supposed to be included in the price I've already paid, so I would not take kindly to being asked for another $20; that would be a different game from "whack-a-mole", in particular a "shell game".

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: cataphract88

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

Sorry bo but I do not agree on this point. It does not matter (or shouldn't) where the fault is for the information (if indeed that is even the issue).

- Erik said that there would be an announcement soon - that was his promise as a representative of Matrix.

- There have been a number of reminders posted and at least one person has sent a PM to this effect.

- Even of there is NOTHING to report, NOTHING NEW to be said or NOTHING NEW in terms of a way forward agreed, at the least a holding post should have been made.

- Given the way this game was released, and the problems it has had combined with the not inconsiderable cost, keeping on top of basic customer service to long-suffering, out of pocket customers, is a MINIMUM requirement surely?

- This lack of service just helps to alienate those who try and remain positive and support the game development, let alone those who feel bitter or disappointed about the product they have forked out for.

Wise words from Warspite.

Good lord what part of "Erik is not the main problem here" don't you people get. I am not his keeper here, he can and should answer these Erik downers right to their face. Erik and I have had some strong words with each other over the last several years about the direction of MWIF, but always with respect and courtesy to each other.

I am really at the end of my wits, what little I have left, what the hell do you want him to say "If I do not get some information soon such as a huge download fix from a certain programmer I am going to close down MWIF for good" It might come to that people, and I would not blame Matrix for doing just that.

In my wildest dreams I never thought I would be defending Erik, but he needs to speak up one way or the other to defend himself and Matrix if they actually need defending. This project IMO has already cost Matrix a ton of prestige in the war gaming computer world and if it was costing out of pocket money this project would have been kaput a long time ago.

My dear fellow posters I am so frustrated right now with not only the direction that was taken by MWIF powers that be but also by where we are right now other than solo play. No one to blame just the way it is, or as I see it, right or wrong.

Bo

warspite1

bo I don't know where that outburst came from and I don't know where "Erik is the main problem" comes from either [&:] But the game is being sold via Matrix.

This thread is entitled: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015.

and presumably was written by the OP in frustration at the lack of communication in the thread entitled: RE: IMPORTANT: State of the Game and Future Plans as of March, 2014, and where, on the 7th April Erik posted this:

Hi guys,

I will post a new "State of the Game" in the next few weeks, thank you for the reminder.

Regards,

- Erik

Firstly, and as far as I am aware, no one is saying that Erik is the "main problem". What people have been saying is that when a company says to its customers that it will do something - it actually does it; it's called customer service.

This is particularly important with MWIF because of the state of the game on release, it's high cost, and the time being taken to make progress in many of the areas it fell short on at release.

bo: what the hell do you want him to say?

Secondly, well I thought that was obvious and has also been made clear in many posts. What I personally would like him to post is either:

a) an update on the state of the game as promised in his post at the start of April, or
b) an update to say that sorry this announcement has been delayed because of x and we will post again by y with further news.

Why is this important? Well for the very obvious reason that, as I said before, you have on these forums two distinct groups: a) those that either didn't buy and are smugly gloating about "how right they were" (and trashing Matrix at every opportunity) and those who wish to hell they hadn't forked out the far from inconsiderable cost and are angry with the situation and b) those that did buy, are concerned at where the hell this game is going, but are willing to stick with it (for now) and help its development as and when they can and on the basis that they believe the game is being supported.

But by falling short of BASIC customer service, Matrix are simply adding to the problems above. When a certain forum troll writes that Matrix have abandoned the game, how are we supposed to defend the position when the paying customer is treated like this? Some word - even a holding update - is not unreasonable after what is nearly two months is it? Why have so many posts reminding Erik followed on from that initial post? Well evidently it is because that post was seen as important and people are keen for the next communication - whatever that may be. Frankly if a company is not going to do what it says - particularly in a delicate situation like this - it is better to say nothing at all.

bo, having started your post by having a go at people posting here, you ended it with

My dear fellow posters I am so frustrated right now with not only the direction that was taken by MWIF powers that be but also by where we are right now other than solo play.

Yes, and that frustration is shared by everyone hence the wish for Matrix to simply keep up the dialogue with its customers as they PROMISED to do. Why have a go at people for asking them to do just that? [&:]

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: cataphract88




Wise words from Warspite.

Good lord what part of "Erik is not the main problem here" don't you people get. I am not his keeper here, he can and should answer these Erik downers right to their face. Erik and I have had some strong words with each other over the last several years about the direction of MWIF, but always with respect and courtesy to each other.

I am really at the end of my wits, what little I have left, what the hell do you want him to say "If I do not get some information soon such as a huge download fix from a certain programmer I am going to close down MWIF for good" It might come to that people, and I would not blame Matrix for doing just that.

In my wildest dreams I never thought I would be defending Erik, but he needs to speak up one way or the other to defend himself and Matrix if they actually need defending. This project IMO has already cost Matrix a ton of prestige in the war gaming computer world and if it was costing out of pocket money this project would have been kaput a long time ago.

My dear fellow posters I am so frustrated right now with not only the direction that was taken by MWIF powers that be but also by where we are right now other than solo play. No one to blame just the way it is, or as I see it, right or wrong.

Bo

warspite1

bo I don't know where that outburst came from and I don't know where "Erik is the main problem" comes from either [&:] But the game is being sold via Matrix.

This thread is entitled: State of the game and future plans (?) May 2015.

and presumably was written by the OP in frustration at the lack of communication in the thread entitled: RE: IMPORTANT: State of the Game and Future Plans as of March, 2014, and where, on the 7th April Erik posted this:

Hi guys,

I will post a new "State of the Game" in the next few weeks, thank you for the reminder.

Regards,

- Erik

Firstly, and as far as I am aware, no one is saying that Erik is the "main problem". What people have been saying is that when a company says to its customers that it will do something - it actually does it; it's called customer service.

This is particularly important with MWIF because of the state of the game on release, it's high cost, and the time being taken to make progress in many of the areas it fell short on at release.

bo: what the hell do you want him to say?

Secondly, well I thought that was obvious and has also been made clear in many posts. What I personally would like him to post is either:

a) an update on the state of the game as promised in his post at the start of April, or
b) an update to say that sorry this announcement has been delayed because of x and we will post again by y with further news.

Why is this important? Well for the very obvious reason that, as I said before, you have on these forums two distinct groups: a) those that either didn't buy and are smugly gloating about "how right they were" (and trashing Matrix at every opportunity) and those who wish to hell they hadn't forked out the far from inconsiderable cost and are angry with the situation and b) those that did buy, are concerned at where the hell this game is going, but are willing to stick with it (for now) and help its development as and when they can and on the basis that they believe the game is being supported.

But by falling short of BASIC customer service, Matrix are simply adding to the problems above. When a certain forum troll writes that Matrix have abandoned the game, how are we supposed to defend the position when the paying customer is treated like this? Some word - even a holding update - is not unreasonable after what is nearly two months is it? Why have so many posts reminding Erik followed on from that initial post? Well evidently it is because that post was seen as important and people are keen for the next communication - whatever that may be. Frankly if a company is not going to do what it says - particularly in a delicate situation like this - it is better to say nothing at all.

bo, having started your post by having a go at people posting here, you ended it with

My dear fellow posters I am so frustrated right now with not only the direction that was taken by MWIF powers that be but also by where we are right now other than solo play.

Yes, and that frustration is shared by everyone hence the wish for Matrix to simply keep up the dialogue with its customers as they PROMISED to do. Why have a go at people for asking them to do just that? [&:]

Well said, Mr. Warspite. Well done... [&o]

[NielsJuel]

Don´t know if you refer to me, but if you do i´ll live with it[:D].
But if writing "Erik Rutins failure to give a state of the game March 2015 despite his promise to do so, in my opinion also definitely marks the end of Matrix games interest in the game as they have moved their focus to other games" makes me a forum troll, then i´m a forum troll.
I am only disappointed that Erik Rutins didn´t deliver on his promise, and speculated on why.
And yes my conclusion is that MWiF is not high on the list of priorities for him and yes I am also frustrated.
By the way I am in the group that forked out.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: NielsJuel

Don´t know if you refer to me, but if you do i´ll live with it[:D].
But if writing "Erik Rutins failure to give a state of the game March 2015 despite his promise to do so, in my opinion also definitely marks the end of Matrix games interest in the game as they have moved their focus to other games" makes me a forum troll, then i´m a forum troll.
I am only disappointed that Erik Rutins didn´t deliver on his promise, and speculated on why.
And yes my conclusion is that MWiF is not high on the list of priorities for him and yes I am also frustrated.
By the way I am in the group that forked out.

warspite1

Edit: Can't be bothered. For the record no, I am not insinuating you are a troll and no idea why you thought that.....[:(]

[NielsJuel]

Sorry, it was just that you mentioned a certain forum troll that wrote that Matrix had abandoned the game. It sounded similar to what I wrote.
Im just disappointed and frustrated and maybe a little touchy and thin skinned, sorry about that.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: NielsJuel

Sorry, it was just that you mentioned a certain forum troll that wrote that Matrix had abandoned the game. It sounded similar to what I wrote.
Im just disappointed and frustrated and maybe a little touchy and thin skinned, sorry about that.

Let me say that you are definitely not the "certain forum troll". You've simply expressed your opinion. And no "sorry" isn't needed.

But I don't believe Matrix have completely abandoned the game. I don't think they will do so when there are still patches coming out. Don't forget: they've paid the costs for the production of the books en discs. And what are the costs of maintaining a server and some storage space? That's peanuts compared to the first investments.

Now, personally, I also believe that they are depending on the programmer to see how things will develop. This is understandable, since it is a one man show. There isn't a team of developers behind this game. So the only thing Matrix can say is: "please read the monthly reports of the programmer. We haven't got anything else to add".

But that they haven't done so, is very disappointing, I believe, since they've made a promise. It's almost an insult to the customers IMHO...

Things are improving with MWIF, but the speed of these improvements isn't there. Now that doesn't mean Steve isn't working as fast as he can, but the code seems to be pretty stubborn at the moment...

[cfc20045]

For the majority of this little project I've been quietly watching from afar, all the way back to when Steve first got involved. I eagerly bought the game upon release and have for the most part enjoyed my playing experience and therefore have continued to patiently wait for bug fixes and improvements to stability. I must however admit to becoming rather disillusioned whilst playing the latest (official) release v1.3.3.0 and I seem to have encountered more bugs and crashes than ever before! To be fair this may be in part be to my better understanding of the rules and what to expect as well as playing with a lot more of the optional rules. However I do think that we are now at a crossroads and decisions need to be made about the future (if any) of the games development. For example is all the recent work on NetPlay worthwhile? I don't see any attempts or examples of anybody attempting to play via NetPlay! Surely it would make more sense to get solitaire working without major issues first, each new version seems to introduce new bugs to the solitaire play, with this in mind, would it not make sense to develop two versions separately from one another, one solitaire and one for NetPlay i.e Steve could work on the Netplay bugs without impacting Solitaire players. Obviously in an ideal world this wouldn't be necessary but as we all know this isn't an ideal world.

[CrusssDaddy]

I do feel a bit smug, I won't deny it. But let's you be honest as well: that smugness arises as a reaction to the fact that I and an unfortunately small number of others brought up years ago legitimate concerns about Matrix, Steve and obvious flaws in the MWiF process and how they were managing it and characterizing it, and these concerns were variously ignored, belittled, or at best swept aside by perhaps well-meaning but ultimately empty appeals to authority. "How many games have YOU programmed???" was of course the most common refrain, along with "Matrix knows what it's doing" in the face of obvious evidence that Matrix either didn't know what it was doing or didn't care, either stance a fatal blow to MWiF. Again, this went on for YEARS.

So yeah, I'm smug now. This community has earned it. Instead of bemoaning your difficulty in composing a defense for Matrix, you should reconsider what exactly they have done to earn a defense.

[AlbertN]

For the majority of this little project I've been quietly watching from afar, all the way back to when Steve first got involved. I eagerly bought the game upon release and have for the most part enjoyed my playing experience and therefore have continued to patiently wait for bug fixes and improvements to stability. I must however admit to becoming rather disillusioned whilst playing the latest (official) release v1.3.3.0 and I seem to have encountered more bugs and crashes than ever before! To be fair this may be in part be to my better understanding of the rules and what to expect as well as playing with a lot more of the optional rules. However I do think that we are now at a crossroads and decisions need to be made about the future (if any) of the games development. For example is all the recent work on NetPlay worthwhile? I don't see any attempts or examples of anybody attempting to play via NetPlay! Surely it would make more sense to get solitaire working without major issues first, each new version seems to introduce new bugs to the solitaire play, with this in mind, would it not make sense to develop two versions separately from one another, one solitaire and one for NetPlay i.e Steve could work on the Netplay bugs without impacting Solitaire players. Obviously in an ideal world this wouldn't be necessary but as we all know this isn't an ideal world.

Well on that department I think that if I was to pick between a "Barbarossa Scenario" functional Netplay, and to have to use indirect ways for a "Global War" 1939 Campaign used in single player mode but played effectively in Multiplayer (Due to Skype, or other means) - I'd pick the latter.

Sure Barbarossa can be the start for Netplay - but that's a tip of the iceberg workload wise.
Bugs are for everything. So Optional Rules are. Heck I'd even re-code for Raw8 whereas possible, more than jumping into Netplay / AI (But that's just me wanting to play with the up to date rules of a game, being a tabletop gamer. It's like having an Errata Corrige coming out and ignoring it.)

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

I do feel a bit smug, I won't deny it. But let's you be honest as well: that smugness arises as a reaction to the fact that I and an unfortunately small number of others brought up years ago legitimate concerns about Matrix, Steve and obvious flaws in the MWiF process and how they were managing it and characterizing it, and these concerns were variously ignored, belittled, or at best swept aside by perhaps well-meaning but ultimately empty appeals to authority. "How many games have YOU programmed???" was of course the most common refrain, along with "Matrix knows what it's doing" in the face of obvious evidence that Matrix either didn't know what it was doing or didn't care, either stance a fatal blow to MWiF. Again, this went on for YEARS.

So yeah, I'm smug now. This community has earned it. Instead of bemoaning your difficulty in composing a defense for Matrix, you should reconsider what exactly they have done to earn a defense.

warspite1

No, and not for the first time you simply don't understand. You can feel as smug and self satisfied as you like, but we are the ones that have been playing and enjoying the game in the meantime.

The other point is that coming up with problems is easy - its how you solve them within what is achievable that is the difficult part. Saying you identified issues is easy. You invariably stated the game would never come out, Matrix didn't want the game out, other companies (all nameless) with unlimited budgets were dying to develop this game and Matrix were stopping them from doing so. All total nonsense of course, but it made you feel good.

Is it perfect? No. But is playing MWIF now preferable to not playing? Yep, big time. So you carry on feeling smug and we'll carry on having fun.

[CrusssDaddy]

Keep playing, Captain Salty. I'll also keep playing CWiF, which conveniently allows you to transport resources, trace correct supply AND return to base. IT MUST BE MAGIC?!?!?!?

[bo]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: brian brian
But yet I think MWiF reminds me of a famous old children's song about an ant and a rubber tree plant. When I look in the AAR threads, I see rubber tree plants moving...

hmmm, do you mind if I ask where you're from? Where I'm from we don't have a famous children's song about an ant and a rubber tree plant?

76mm I am from South Philly, we have the Mafia and Pats steaks but I never heard of the rubber tree plants, and ANTS? [&:]

[bo]

ORIGINAL: NielsJuel

Sorry, it was just that you mentioned a certain forum troll that wrote that Matrix had abandoned the game. It sounded similar to what I wrote.
Im just disappointed and frustrated and maybe a little touchy and thin skinned, sorry about that.

I do not think warspite was calling you a troll. But I am sick and tired of that word. These forums are supposed to be about free speech. If a person does not like the state of affairs with MWIF and so expresses himself or herself in an unfriendly manner or in a very negative manner so what.

I dislike the word and it is used too often if somebody does not think exactly as some posters think they should about whatever.

Bo

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Keep playing, Captain Salty. I'll also keep playing CWiF, which conveniently allows you to transport resources, trace correct supply AND return to base. IT MUST BE MAGIC?!?!?!?

warspite1

bo got General Goofy and I get Captain Salty?? Can I at least be one of the seven dwarfs too please? How about Admiral Dopey? [:)]

[CrusssDaddy]

Hmm, Rear Admiral Dingus may suit. I'll think on it over the weekend and let you know.

[warspite1]

Thank-you for your consideration.

[bo]

I know I am on thin ice warspite when centuur agrees with you about my post. Now I am not a member of the high IQ Mensa society which a member would be intelligent enough to drop this subject. I tried to join them but I missed by oh lets say a mere 100 points [:(]

Again should Matrix or Erik say something, okay for sake of argument he says I have nothing to say at this moment about the state of MWIF, would that suffice, HELL NO! You called it an outburst by me, maybe someone could rescue me please as I seem to not be pleasing certain posters.

If he has not one speck of MWIF information to give out, some might say he is using "common sense" not to say anything.

Please warspite do not take this to heart, I have no doubt that you read all of the beta posts everyday day in and every day out, I know I do as most of the beta testers do.

You can give more information about the state of MWIF in 10 seconds then Erik could in a month. And if that is the case what information can you give the general forums about bugs that still remain, no netplay, no halfmap scenarios, no optional rules no AI etc.

You know exactly where we stand, or you would if more information was forthcoming from the powers that be. But of course that is not your responsibility to do that, it is Erik's.

Please warspite not trying to cross swords with you, I do not know if Erik even reads the Mwif beta forums or even questions the programmer where he stands on the game. I finally agree he should say something.

Bo