Misperceptions re land movement/combat

[spence]

In a PBEM I am playing it seems that a Japanese unit in China moved directly from one enemy occupied hex to another enemy occupied hex. Following the move a Chinese Shock Attack got 7 to 1 odds on the (reinforced) stack of Japanese units. Previously that stack had been surrounded by enemy occupied hexes and was unable to retreat - thus suffering very heavy casualties...now the same situation seems to prevail with retreat being impossible and thus more heavy losses to the Japanese resulting.

Since I am the Allies this doesn't upset me much but I could have sworn that I saw somewhere that units can not move directly from one enemy occupied hex to another enemy occupied hex.

In a somewhat similar situation with the roles reversed my Chinese guys couldn't retreat or even be given orders to move into an adjacent hex occupied solely by Chinese units.

I also found it impossible to move a unit from adjacent Nanchang into the hex occupied by both those same Japanese and Chinese units even though the Japanese seemed to be surrounded and couldn't move/retreat and were already suffering heavy losses due to Chinese attacks. A similar problem seemed to occur in Burma with some British units being unable to move into an enemy occupied hex from an adjacent (and solely British occupied) hex.

I am confused about hex/hexside control and movement/retreat restrictions.

[obvert]

If you own the hex, you can move through the hexside if the enemy has not moved through that side from a neighboring hex to open the hexside for his forces.

If the other hex is owned by your own forces you can move through the hexside even if the enemy is in it and in the one you'e in.

If you own the hex you're in and have moved into a hex the enemy owns, you can still move there through that open hexside even if the enemy moves into yours from a different side.

[rustysi]

OK, clear as mud.[:D] Just kidding. I too have trouble with this aspect of the game. Maybe some day I'll get it through my thick skull.

[spence]

But if the Japanese unit which moved "relieved the besieged force" by moving through a previously unmoved through hexside why couldn't they just retreat back through that same hexside when they were attacked at 7 to 1?

The "relievers" and the relieved force seemed to be surrounded now. (???)

[witpaemail]

Hit "w". It will display either a green or red hex side. That shows who controls the HEXSIDE. Hex ownership doesnt mean diddly. Its who controls the hex SIDES that matter.

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: witpaemail

Hit "w". It will display either a green or red hex side. That shows who controls the HEXSIDE. Hex ownership doesnt mean diddly. Its who controls the hex SIDES that matter.

if it is green, then allies can move thru it. If red, japs likewise. look closely. So be careful where u poke ur nose, u might get stuck.

[DConn]

And always remember that each hexside also has two sides: the side on the "inside" of the hex, and the side on the "outside" of the hex (which is the same as on the "inside" of the adjacent hex). For a single hexside, one "side" may be controlled by the A, and another by the J. Movement restrictions are very different in this situation than if the A or J controls both sides of the hexside.

[GetAssista]

Simple rule:
Unit can move through the hexside if its inside is under control. Period.

[obvert]

Retreat is a different thing, and if I remember correctly in certain patches there are issues with a armies not being able to retreat. Most usually seen with Chinese units not retreating though.

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Simple rule:
Unit can move through the hexside if its inside is under control. Period.

That easy, huh? I'll have to keep my eye on this.

[GetAssista]

Retreat is a different thing from movement, yes. Retreat happens in the direction of the most pronounced supply trickle from nearby bases. If unit does not have any supply trickle (common in China) it will not retreat even if there are passable hexsides and empty hexes nearby.

Oh, and supply trickle through hexside cuts off if any of the sub-sides is under enemy control

[DConn]

GA is exactly right. The thing you have to watch out for is that being alone in the hex automatically gives you control of all the "inside" hexsides of the hex. So if you move into an enemy hex where the enemy has been alone, you only get control of the "inside" side of the hexside you move through. That REALLY limits your options, and may lead you want to move other units in through other hexsides, so you can control more "inside" hexsides of the hex are in (giving you a lot more maneuver options).

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Retreat is a different thing from movement, yes. Retreat happens in the direction of the most pronounced supply trickle from nearby bases. If unit does not have any supply trickle (common in China) it will not retreat even if there are passable hexsides and empty hexes nearby.

Oh, and supply trickle through hexside cuts off if any of the sub-sides is under enemy control

Supply "trickle" is not a valid AE concept. It is supply path which matters. Chinese units almost always have a supply path even though not even a supply "trickle" reaches them.

Alfred