Unleashed Extended I & II

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OJsDad
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by OJsDad »

Mordachai,
 
   Something else I've noticed is that Caslon isn't getting distributed around.  This may just be an issue that will fix itself once I get more efficient power systems, but it is causing a lot of shortages.  I've noticed this even when I have a gas mining station location at a Gas Giant with a CA rating of 83% and is orbited by a colony with a spaceport.  The space port has 0 CA on board.  I've seen empty freighters go to the gas mine to refuel, but they are not picking up any to take anywhere else.
 
Thanks.
mordachai
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by mordachai »

Which start did you choose? Custom, or Legends, or Shadows, ...?

I noticed a shortage in my current game as well (though it was just that: a shortage. Over time the mining stations did their jobs, and my fleets would eventually get what they needed, just took longer than I wanted).

I'll double check a few things tonight - but I've not seen a scenario where freighters weren't being created. If there are circumstances under which the freighters aren't being created correctly - then that would very likely explain any undue resource shortages. However.. I don't recall making any changes to cargo capacity, or mining efficiency. I think the only variable I would have touched in all of that would be max-construction-size, having reduced it to 200 at the start (though it jumps up to 500 in 2 tech upgrades [if starting pre-warp, or 1 upgrade if starting standard game], so by that point the size is > vanilla).

I haven't changed the freighter ship designs that I'm aware of either. Changed stations, military vessels, defense bases, mining bases, and resort bases. Maybe there are some circumstances under which a mining base will get designed by the automation which fails to have any mining units? lol - that would be terrible (or missing cargo hold).

Anyway, I'll poke around. If you can answer the "which game" question, and keep an eye open for patterns in the weirdness, maybe we can track down the underlying issue.

DW:U is huge, and complex, and it's impossible to avoid all possible edge-cases, but maybe we can eliminate a few more prevalent "gotchas"
mordachai
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by mordachai »

I might try changing the engines so that they're more efficient - but they have smaller capacities of fuel. So instead of requiring such large volumes, they require smaller but run out about the same time (so still restrict range early on, but do so in a less costly / hard on the economy way).
Dudok22
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by Dudok22 »

Playing UE II max size galaxy game as Yor, everything works fine, having loads of fun but I have "instinctively dislike" modifier with other Yor empires. Is that normal or is it bug?
mordachai
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by mordachai »

I'm glad to hear it! The Yor disliking other Yor must be a part of Extended mod (Haree78). I guess those bugs just can't stand anyone - not even themselves :)
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OJsDad
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by OJsDad »

Hello Mordachai,
 
   Sorry, been traveling for work the last couple of weeks.  I did answer my game settings earlier, so hope that helps.
 
   For the Caslon, it may not be as big an issue as I first thought.  In hindsight, it makes a game more strategic.  In vanilla, you really didn't have to worry as much about mining, power plant efficiency, and storage capacity as much and could direct your research to other areas.  But now, you have to put more thought into your research to better utilize your resources. 
 
   I think this will be a very mod.  Haven't gotten very far into it yet, but it is looking very good.
 
OJsDad.
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OJsDad
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by OJsDad »

Here is a screen with the default freighter design at the very beginning of the game.  As you can see, the size of the design than you can build at the very beginning of the game. 
 
http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/OJsDa ... r.jpg.html
 
 
mordachai
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by mordachai »

Ah, yes, I see what you're saying now. :)

The initial size limit of 200 means that the basic freighters won't build. So you need to research that first construction tech asap! I normally play with pre-warp start - and even then this has never hampered me. My early builds fall within the stores I begin any game with at my HW, and by the time it matters, I've researched the first size jump to 500.

Keep me posted as you play. My most recent two games saw the AIs kicking my butt :( So they certainly didn't seem set-back by that limitation. But... I could redesign the small freighter to fit within the 200 limit, or I could try pushing it back up to 250. That just invites the auotomater to create idiot destroyers, light cruisers, etc., again, so I'd prefer to avoid it if I can.

FYI - I'm play-testing with 250 starting size. Seems the automation can handle designing the freighters at that size, and so-far looks like it doesn't try to make light cruisers or above, so good balance.
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OJsDad
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by OJsDad »

Mordachai,
 
    Here are a couple of screen shots of how I setup my games.  See if these help at all.
 
    Image
 
Image
 
 
    Once I figured out what was happening with the freighters, it wasn't hard to go in and adjust them so they could be built.
 
    In my current game, I only have one other AI opponent that I am in contact with so far.  No sure how I'll fair against them if they start a war with me.  They are quite a bit smaller so hopefully that will help.
 
    I do need to learn how to adjust the templates, as the auto design for bases drives me nuts. 
 
    Oh, and if you want a copy of one of my save games, let me know and I'll get it to  you.
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OJsDad
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by OJsDad »

Another question, what tech needs to be researched to unlock carriers.
mordachai
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by mordachai »

FYI - to use the IMG - and embed the image - placing it on photobucket is perfect - just only surround the link with IMG and end it with /IMG (inside of braces). No need for the URL= stuff.

As to the fuel shortage issue... my most recent two games have a severe shortage. If I look at the galaxy as a whole, or my empire, then there is plenty of actual Hydrogen. But my fleets are all starving. If I look at the individual mining bases, they seem to be chugging away... but are somewhat full of crap gasses (Helium and Casalon). I crash-researched a bunch of storage upgrades - figuring that would relieve some of the pressure on the cargo space... but no luck. Most of my fleets remain starved for fuel.

I don't know if I just got bad "rolls" the last couple of games or what? I double-checked that the mining rates - the research & components are the same as in vanilla. They are. So rate-of-mining-fuel is same as in un-modded games. Yet... fuel never seems to be available to my ships (I'm playing the Teekan this time, and their economy is off the freakin' rails - 13million in the bank, rolling about 130K / whatever units it measures "cash-flow" in). Money is no object... but fuel... and the price of fuel is only .8 / unit - so the game seems to consider that overall, there isn't a high demand for it (not enough to raise its price). And the overall amounts & unsatisfied - well, there's a ton of it out there availalble, and not that much "unsatisfied".

So... I don't get it. Why - in my mod (lol) - is Hydrogen such a problem? Since I combined others mods to get this one... I wasn't in the decision loop as to many of the changes - and maybe there were some changes that have broken or massively hindered the economics of DW:U that I hadn't noticed before (I've had several games where fuel wasn't a big deal - tight at times, but overall no problem).

I can think of a couple possibilities:
* It is NOT due to freighters (this current game I upped the start size to 250, and noted happily that freighters were immediately being built).
* (also, I can see plenty of independent freighters hanging out not moving cargo about... so freighter capacity isn't the issue)
* Something about having engines which use a lot of gas early is the problem? (I doubt this, as the shortages seem too widespread and severe to just be that)
* Something is borked in beta 12 that is interacting with this mod to produce this situation? (but if so, what?!)
* Random bad luck: the Hydrogen planets are just low-output ones in my last couple of games? (I'd have to double check whether this is true or not)

It is hard to diagnose without tools to look at "where is my Hydrogen at?" "How much is available?" "Graph of Hydrogen production (vs. other games at similar stage)?"...

If anyone knows of ways to peer under the hood to get this sort of info, I'd love to hear it (or better: how to sleuth out the fundamental issue: why gas shortage)..
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OJsDad
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by OJsDad »

    I haven't gotten to using hydrogen yet.  What I did to relieve the Calson shortage was to use the expansion planner to find planets with good Calson reserves and send my construction ships to build gas mines.  As these got built, my shortage issues disappeared.
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OJsDad
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by OJsDad »

I was just looking a the template designs for small space ports.  I compared XHuman from your mod to the vanilla Human.  One thing that stood out is that there are not cargo units.  Yet, when I looked at one of my small space ports in the game, there are products in the cargo section.  Not sure what modules are storing these.  Not sure if the lack of cargo modules is causing an issue or not.
mordachai
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by mordachai »

I inherited that aspect of spaceport designs from ... one of the previous mods. Maybe from AI Extended? At any rate - I found a thread discussing that they're not necessary for spaceports - that they "share" their cargo capacity with their world, which effectively infinite (though pirates do need at least 1, which is then infinite in actual capacity). So... shouldn't matter at all.
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Retreat1970
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by Retreat1970 »

Correct. Spaceports do not need cargo bays.

I'm playing UEII. Mid game as Atuuk (of course). Money is just outrageous. I have 16 colonies, tax 30% on homeworld (rest 0), and I'm still pulling in 500k/yr. While I have 100+ ship fleets, the AI rarely goes above 20. Been fun though.
mordachai
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by mordachai »

lol - yeah, I may have over-boosted the economy :}

For some races, it's "just right", for others (mercantile / racial bonuses like the Teekan), it's freakin' nuts.

I am working on III - where I've raised the purchase prices of wonders by 10x+, which I think will make them less silly, more of a... wonder.

But the rest of the economy - I'll probably need to nerf it a bit, see how that goes. Teekan, e.g., should make more ... but 500k cashflow is a bit extreme ;)
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OJsDad
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by OJsDad »

NM I found it in the Energy tech tree

What is the tech needed to unlock carriers.  I'm probably just blind, but I don't see it.

Thanks
mordachai
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by mordachai »

It's the 4th construction tech, I believe. Both supply ships and carriers are unlocked with ~700/750 build capacity (I don't recall which I chose). You still need a hangar bay technology, and depending on your techs, the automated ship designer may or may not manage to design a valid carrier when you unlock it (usually it does - moving it to needing at least 700 capacity was why I moved it - so that the resulting initial carrier would actually be designed in accordance with the template for it, and end up with a valid / good carrier design).
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OJsDad
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by OJsDad »

ORIGINAL: mordachai

Ah, yes, I see what you're saying now. :)

The initial size limit of 200 means that the basic freighters won't build. So you need to research that first construction tech asap! I normally play with pre-warp start - and even then this has never hampered me. My early builds fall within the stores I begin any game with at my HW, and by the time it matters, I've researched the first size jump to 500.

Keep me posted as you play. My most recent two games saw the AIs kicking my butt :( So they certainly didn't seem set-back by that limitation. But... I could redesign the small freighter to fit within the 200 limit, or I could try pushing it back up to 250. That just invites the auotomater to create idiot destroyers, light cruisers, etc., again, so I'd prefer to avoid it if I can.

FYI - I'm play-testing with 250 starting size. Seems the automation can handle designing the freighters at that size, and so-far looks like it doesn't try to make light cruisers or above, so good balance.


I had to adjust my starting ship construction size to 260. The AI was designing ships at 252. [:'(]
Euler
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RE: Unleashed Extended

Post by Euler »

Mordachai, I like the main mods you combined (Haree, Icemania, and Osito) but is it possible to get them without the economy acceleration? I like the other changes you made to UEII, so would like to play this mod without the faster economies if possible. Thanks for doing this!
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