First Impressions

From the first clash at Manassas to the epic confrontation between Lee and Grant, the Brother Against Brother series will bring new levels of historical detail and realism to the battles of the Civil War. This regimental-level game, created by the developers of the award-winning Forge of Freedom, builds on that game’s acclaimed tactical engine, adding scrupulously researched orders of battle, high-quality map graphics, command and control rules reflecting the numerous challenges faced by army commanders, and plenty other features. Beginning with The Drawing of The Sword – which recreates the pivotal opening battles at Manassas , Wilson ’s Creek, Mill Springs and Williamsburg – Brother Against Brother lets you refight the Civil War from start to finish.

Moderators: ericbabe, Gil R.

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Michael T
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RE: First Impressions

Post by Michael T »

If the quality of the map graphics could be transported to the Nato Chits that would be fab.
Rosseau
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RE: First Impressions

Post by Rosseau »

Okay auto hot key. That will be a big help on JTCS games, too [:)]
LuckyJim1010
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RE: First Impressions

Post by LuckyJim1010 »

+1 on the Command Radius.
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Yogi the Great
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RE: First Impressions

Post by Yogi the Great »

21. Hotkeys List
‘+’/‘-’ keys cycle through unmoved units
CTRL + ‘+’/‘-’ keys zooms in/out
<Escape> deselects the active unit, and if “Scouts” is selected at the corps level
deactives that
<Tab> toggles on and off movement arrows
<Spacebar> deselects the active unit
A toggles on/off the unit Strength/Morale/Supply/OOC overlay
H toggles on/off the Echelon Window
T causes the appearance of a pop-up indicating the terrain under the mouse
U toggles on/off the Order of Battle Display
V toggles on/off “NATO” chits
Z toggles between maximum zoom-in and zoom-out
Hooked Since AH Gettysburg
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Duck Doc
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RE: First Impressions

Post by Duck Doc »


Got the new patch.

Thanks for implementing the highlighting of the unit on the map when selected in the OOB. Will make things a bunch easier.

Thanks for the posture indicators on the NATO counters. At first I wasn't sure the hit to the aesthetic was worth the info but on second look it is an ingenious solution. Can see at a glance what's shakin' out!

The echelon color bars are helpful too.

Thanks for listening. This game has come a 'fur piece already. Huzzah! [&o]

(Now if we could only get the ability to highlight subordinate units when commanders are selected (yes, I am relentless and unrepentant.)) [:D]
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ericbabe
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RE: First Impressions

Post by ericbabe »

Glad you like the new changes. I've been thinking of some sort of option to have arrows drawn from upper-echelon commanders to their subordinates. The problem with this is that having many long arrows active can start to slow down the game.
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Duck Doc
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RE: First Impressions

Post by Duck Doc »

I only see all of the new changes on the starter scenario in the tutorial mode. Is this the case?

How about a different color hex outline for all the subordinate units like the hex border when the unit is selected but a different color? Or even all units name the same color? Not a biggie.

Thanks,

(Add: all is working fine. Don't know what happened when I first applied the patch. Maybe I needed to restart, Duh!)
marion61
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RE: First Impressions

Post by marion61 »

I'm new to this game, and I've only played a few scenarios. That's my disclaimer[8D].

I've mainly played the Manassis scenario, and I really like how you did the game. When I alt-tab out to get my screen shot program out, and return to the game, my mouse cursor disappears and I have to shut the game down.

A couple of oddities I've noticed are with the casualties. I had the Louisiana regiment surrounded for 4-5 turns, shooting it from behind for all those turns, and two turns it was 2 hexes away from two arty units also and not only have they never panicked, but they take such low casualties. They took on one brigade, Burnsides entire brigade, and have taken out both arty pieces, and disordered three out of the four regiments.

In another instance of this, there are 3 confederate regiments, that have been surrounded on all sides for several hours of the battle now, and not one of them have panicked or routed yet. They are being shot from all sides and the casualties from being shot from the flanks at close range sure seems low. Some confederate units when they fire at close range do massive damage, but union units not so much.

I know quality of the unit comes into this, but any unit surrounded for several turns, without a leader, out of command and supply is not going to just stay there and be shot from four sides, with cannons and hold their ground. Maybe it's something I'm missing.

I think someone mentioned this before, but I don't see certain colors well, and it would be nice that when I select a unit it highlights the hexes of the other units in it's brigade, and maybe the leader hex highlight could be like a different color than the regiments in the brigade.

I also +1 the command range shading. I have the patch, but the red outlines could be lighter so they are easier to see. I still am having a hard time seeing the leaders command range on the map. Being partially color blind I just don't see some colors well, especially if they are subtle.

Overall I like this game, and can't wait for Gettysburg![;)]
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Duck Doc
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RE: First Impressions

Post by Duck Doc »

Ran across this in Guelzo's Gettysburg last evening"

"A modest-sized regiment, letting off a volley at an incoming enemy, might be doing very well to hit 1 or 2 of them; an entire brigade, firing simultaneously, might be able to hit 4 or 5 of its enemies at any single opportunity. Given how attacking infantry, moving over 1700 yards, could cover that ground in approximately 16 minutes, then the most each rifleman in massed brigade on the defensive could hope to deliver during the attack were 10 reasonably aimed shots."

Might be best to take up questions about the game engine's combat results in another thread. I have been reluctant to open Pandora's box although I did make a comment about artillery and infantry. (Also read previously in the same work about the artillery battery covering First Corp's retreat from Seminary Ridge firing 115 rounds of canister at the Rebs over a short period of time (can't find the page right now)).

I am so happy to have a game take on the ACW on a tactical level and do so well I am afraid a discussion about combat results might do more damage than it is worth right now. The UI has come a long way. Might be best just to play a bunch and see how it all shakes out.
Clinchrifles
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RE: First Impressions

Post by Clinchrifles »

Can't really compare later battles to the likes of 1st manassas
marion61
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RE: First Impressions

Post by marion61 »

Constructive criticism is what that was. I find shedding light on problems gets them solved more quickly. Pushing it under the table till later only makes it worse by frustrating players. I don't believe I was trying to be negative, but the thread does say First Impressions, and these were mine. Once I have enough data on it, with pics, I'll present my case in the bug forums.
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Duck Doc
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RE: First Impressions

Post by Duck Doc »


I have questions too but I am going to give the developers the benefit of the doubt until I have played it more. That's all I was saying and urging. I ain't no expert. Not trying to start a fight or a pissing contest here at all. Do what you want.

ORIGINAL: meklore61

Constructive criticism is what that was. I find shedding light on problems gets them solved more quickly. Pushing it under the table till later only makes it worse by frustrating players. I don't believe I was trying to be negative, but the thread does say First Impressions, and these were mine. Once I have enough data on it, with pics, I'll present my case in the bug forums.
Chromey
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RE: First Impressions

Post by Chromey »

I feel your pain Meklore. I had 1 reb regiment engaged by 4 whom I had in mass charge formation. Long story short it avoided 3 charges and delivered 3x the casaulties it took until it was finally caught in melee and gave back more then it took in the fray. SO after 3/4 turns of combat it was finally broken but my brigade was now spent. All this happened on Major difficulty.. Could just say it was shit rolls but I ask myself can the rebs be that lucky [:o] I guess they can!! Got a long way before I figure out the mysteries of this game.
RobearGWJ
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RE: First Impressions

Post by RobearGWJ »

It's Bull Run. Another worthwhile question is how did you get four Union regiments into position to attack an enemy unit simultaneously? :-) Seriously, anything can happen. Just look at the story of the greenest troops on the field, the US Marines. They performed prodigiously for most of the day, in spite of their lack of experience and even the fact that they were attached to an Army command. Then they broke twice, contributing significantly to the defeat after nearly ensuring its success. Go figure.

In the early war, strange things happened regularly. I'm more happy that things like Meklore describes happen in the game than I would be if it were all reduced to a bland mush of average performances. Randomness played a factor in the Civil War, often a large one, and that should be kept in the game, *especially* when it frustrates a human players plans. :-)

Predictable games are boring.
marion61
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RE: First Impressions

Post by marion61 »

Iirc, the Louisiana Tigers were one of the best Confederate units on the field that day, so I'm sure that played a part in them taking Burnside's brigade out.

I guess my greatest concern is that the ai thought that the open terrain it was in was better to fight in than the forested level 2 hex, two hexes behind it, and allowing me to maneuver around them so easily and take that hill and it's objective.

I don't mind that kind of frustration as that adds to the games appeal. If your looking for frustration, game intended, try Williamsburg. All those Union troops just sitting there several turns, which is what happened, makes you feel a little of what I'm sure they did back then.

It appears that the ai gets a huge advantage, even set to corporal. When I set the game to play the ai (highest setting was Lt. Col), the ai was scoring huge casualties consistently, even on corporal, no matter which side I played, while the casualties I inflicted were more towards the norm. Not knowing exactly what each difficulty level means in terms of game play and ai advantage, I'm not sure how to gauge the results.

When I play the game against myself, human to human, the casualties seem to be within norms for the types of attacks conducted. I know no ai is perfect, and I'm not asking for perfection, but just relating what I've experienced so far.
Clinchrifles
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RE: First Impressions

Post by Clinchrifles »

When you are playing vs ai, you will notice in the combat report that it shows a bunch of modifiers. One of the first modifiers is related to difficulty levels. Im not sure if it is a particular number or some sort of percentage. I dont care for any of this so i play pbem [;)]
marion61
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RE: First Impressions

Post by marion61 »

I agree PBEM is the way to go, but the ai helps learn the game before I try and take on a human opponent. A good ai helping you learn can keep you from picking up bad habits that are disastrous against a human opponent.
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Duck Doc
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RE: First Impressions

Post by Duck Doc »

Playing Mill Springs, standard scenario in the 1.03 beta. The echelon colors do not work with the NATO counters. They seem ok with the 3D sprites but not the NATO counters.

I am getting a lot of drawing errors while playing. If I had time I would post some examples but I don't.

I really need to be able to see subordinate units highlighted somehow when the commander is present. Might be good to highlight superiors at the same time with a different color. GG's War in the East is a good example of such.

In the OOB or unit list in this scenario the artillery and cavalry and pioneers and supply unit are listed as part of Carter's brigade according to the echelon color scheme. I would have thought they should be under Thomas's command. Am I wrong about this?


FWIW (not much) I would have been happy with a couple of zoom levels and a mini map along with crisply drawn 2D NATO units rather than the infinite scaling present. I would be happy with a zoomed-in working view and a zoomed-out view for situational awareness of bigger chunks of the battle space and then a mini map for a global view and for moving around the battle space. There seems to be one zoom level where the counters are crisply detailed but in the other levels they are fuzzy. Maybe I have been spoiled by the Tiller engine but I may not be alone.

I appreciate the decision to start with some early and small battles and then offer later ones but fighting it out in the rain with flintlocks might not be the best way to show off the game engine to players interested in a tactical game of the ACW. Similarly I appreciate offering 1st Bull Run as a whole battle but I would appreciate being able to play a chunk or small part of bigger battles with a lot of 'what if' situations and variants. I wont be playing the three days of Gettysburg at this level.
marcpennington
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RE: First Impressions

Post by marcpennington »

I completely agree with that comment on the echelon colors not working with the 2D counters.

Would it be possible to add a toggle where the echelon colors are changed to a text such as 1st/ 4th, meaning 1st Division, 4th Brigade, or something similar.
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Gil R.
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RE: First Impressions

Post by Gil R. »

ORIGINAL: Dale H

Ran across this in Guelzo's Gettysburg last evening"

"A modest-sized regiment, letting off a volley at an incoming enemy, might be doing very well to hit 1 or 2 of them; an entire brigade, firing simultaneously, might be able to hit 4 or 5 of its enemies at any single opportunity. Given how attacking infantry, moving over 1700 yards, could cover that ground in approximately 16 minutes, then the most each rifleman in massed brigade on the defensive could hope to deliver during the attack were 10 reasonably aimed shots."


Thanks for posting this. We recently had an online review during which frustration was expressed over such low casualty figures. But, of course, sometimes it is perfectly realistic to have a whole regiment fire and just inflict a few casualties.
Michael Jordan plays ball. Charles Manson kills people. I torment eager potential customers by not sharing screenshots of "Brother Against Brother." Everyone has a talent.
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