New GC41, no Lvov pocket on T01

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

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Callistrid
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New GC41, no Lvov pocket on T01

Post by Callistrid »

Since several player wish to play "historical" game, it's possible in the newest patch to give onother CG41 mod, to avoid the major Lvov pocet on T01.

I belive it's easy to create it, just need to set the 11th, 13th and 14th panzer divisions movement from 50 to 40 MP. Without +10 movement it's ipossible to create the major Lvov pocket.
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morvael
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RE: New GC41, no Lvov pocket on T01

Post by morvael »

This is house rule material only, as no encirclement should be paired with Soviet player staying to fight in the Ukraine, not railing forces away building wall of steel around Leningrad and Moscow. That's why such solution (already invented) was not implemented, as it ties only the hands of German player, giving him no guarantee the Soviet will stay to fight.

For a game using such house rules see here:
tm.asp?m=3821747
tm.asp?m=3822901
Callistrid
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RE: New GC41, no Lvov pocket on T01

Post by Callistrid »

I disagree. With 40 MP the german armors still could encircle the soviet troops, but not not all of them, or they can block the retreat lines.
Of course on that way the german armor divisions must act around Lvov, not rush east.
And gives +1 turn to deal with the Lvov pocket (and rumania will enter historically time).

Here is a sample, about what I'm talking about. The german can encircle most of the Lvov troops, but their troops must attack on western part of Lvov ukraine, not the eastern part, like in all GC41 opening do the german players.



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loki100
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RE: New GC41, no Lvov pocket on T01

Post by loki100 »

I'd agree with morvael here, the problem is two fold and best handled between players. The Lvov dynamics are a combination of the German player doing something the game (incorrectly) allows them to do. But the game allows the Soviet players to do two things if there is no Lvov pocket.

One is equally incorrect which is to send SW Front off to defend Leningrad. Thats as politically/militarily impossible in reality as the German in-game pocket was geographically in reality (its noticeable that the WiTW map shows exactly why).

The other is harder to capture but has a lot to do with the real flow of the war in the Ukraine. To me, the campaign that happened flowed around 4 big mistakes - the Soviet over commitment at Kiev (that wrecked SW Front), the Soviet 1942 Kharkov offensive (that opened the door to Blau by demoralising the entire Soviet Ukrainian fronts), Stalingrad and Kursk. You can argue that by mid-1943 that set sort of balance out but if the Germans are to make any real progress in the Ukraine they need something akin to a Kiev style battle.

The first is easy to capture with a mutual house rule, no Lvov, no mass evacuation of SW Front. The second is more a mindset that means a Soviet player will try to fight not run.

A few rule changes in 1.08.03 help with the overall flow. The removal of FBD5 constrains the German logistics, the need to get out more industry (esp HI) forces a more active defence, the removal of +1 makes it easier for the Germans to push into risky positions, the lower Gds creation threshold rewards a few lucky defensive battles for the Soviets.
Callistrid
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RE: New GC41, no Lvov pocket on T01

Post by Callistrid »

Loki, most of the Lvov pocket units can't survive the pocket. Only the rumanian entering will slow down by one turn, plus the german can't rush D-town on T04.

Changing the panzers MP just give one extra turn on south.

In that way, non random weather, mild winter, and no +1 attack/defense could be a playable option for the soviet side.
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Peltonx
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RE: New GC41, no Lvov pocket on T01

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Since several player wish to play "historical" game, it's possible in the newest patch to give onother CG41 mod, to avoid the major Lvov pocet on T01.

I belive it's easy to create it, just need to set the 11th, 13th and 14th panzer divisions movement from 50 to 40 MP. Without +10 movement it's ipossible to create the major Lvov pocket.

Just read a history book.

Games are generally fun and not boring.

What ifs are about both sides not just one
Beta Tester WitW & WitE
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heliodorus04
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RE: New GC41, no Lvov pocket on T01

Post by heliodorus04 »

Five years later, this argument is still going on.
The only players who want the Lvov pocket capability removed from the game are people who NEVER play as the Axis and don't care how much fun they steal from the Axis side of the game.
Fall 2021-Playing: Stalingrad'42 (GMT); Advanced Squad Leader,
Reading: Masters of the Air (GREAT BOOK!)
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game
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Peltonx
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RE: New GC41, no Lvov pocket on T01

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

Five years later, this argument is still going on.
The only players who want the Lvov pocket capability removed from the game are people who NEVER play as the Axis and don't care how much fun they steal from the Axis side of the game.

I like WitW as you can tell by my record :), only have 2 games on going left.

1 the guy went aka so I have to wait for the 30 day rule
1 is more then likely a win, but hes got a very small chance at a draw.

I am playing the guy I lost 2 once the new patch is released.

I got 4 WitE on going.

Think I keep 1 WitW and 3 or 4 WitE, WitE is the game that keeps on giving.
Beta Tester WitW & WitE
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