Bob Flemin' Fall Gelb AARse.....

[Jagdtiger14]

Wait on Denmark. I would move the 7-4 INF on the Dutch border on the coast closer to Denmark to make up for the 5-4 MOT.

[Orm]

How about Netherlands?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

How about Netherlands?

warspite1

In Storm?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Wait on Denmark. I would move the 7-4 INF on the Dutch border on the coast closer to Denmark to make up for the 5-4 MOT.

warspite1

Okalee dokalee

[Jagdtiger14]

Personally I wouldn't attack Netherlands without giving the Germans a chance at invading Rotterdam. We could say that the first attempt to get a cruiser with a div failed on the first impulse....however, no invasions in storm, so I would say no. Germans should get a cruiser out there with a div...maybe even the whole fleet and see if they can sink the CW loaded TRS?...I don't know what's out there.

One possibility would be if the Germans are able to make an attack on Amsterdam at high odds, and the CW (no idea what they have at sea) units flip when landing in Rotterdam (would they be able to be re-orged?). If CW units are flipped in Rotterdam without being re-orged, then I would say yes, with the idea of eliminating the flipped CW units in Rotterdam the following impulse.

Now that the surprise impulse threat is over, German units can be moved around a bit closer to Netherlands and Belgium.

[warspite1]

There's the Home Fleet. Do ya wanna piece of that? Well do ya? punk.

[Jagdtiger14]

Actually, in stormy weather I might[8|]

Make that a probably yes. What can the Germans get to which boxes?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Actually, in stormy weather I might[8|]

warspite1

Is that an order to the Kriegsmarine? Please confirm and I will get my best man - Admiral Raeder - on the job right away.

[Jagdtiger14]

I don't have the Kriegsmarine info in front of me...could you help with that? Put my buddy Karl in charge please...

[warspite1]

Karl is otherwise engaged with his pet project - Untersee Boats or something. Don't worry Raeder knows who to call - Admiral Marschal - he'll see you right.

[Jagdtiger14]

What box(es) are the CW in? And since I don't have the chart in front of me either, are 9 naval units the next column up on damage?...ie...1-8, then 9-? I think 1-8 is the lowest column, so I would put: Gniesenau, Scharnhorst, Hipper, Blucher, Emden, Karlsruhe, Konigsberg (flip this one to initiate), Koln (carrying 1-3 SS INF div) all in the 4 box.

I would do a combined for Germany so some land units can be moved around and air rebased.

[warspite1]

CW have mucked up their start positions so they are only in the 2-box.

The ships are 0-1, 2, 3-4, 5-7, 8-11 and 12-16.

So you are going for a declaration of war vs Holland?

[Orm]

Since in the presence of the enemy option is on the German fleet can only reach the three box.

[Jagdtiger14]

Damn! You guys play with options we never do, and don't play with options we always do.[:@] I didn't look close enough to see that option on. Then its even more crucial that the Germans started off as doing a combined and getting a cruiser and div. in the 4 box.

I would remove Karlsruhe from the list above to make it 7.

I take it the answers to my questions above about Holland are a negative (I cant see so I cant figure it out myself), so in that case no DOW on Holland.

[Barbuesque]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

CW have mucked up their start positions so they are only in the 2-box.

The ships are 0-1, 2, 3-4, 5-7, 8-11 and 12-16.

So you are going for a declaration of war vs Holland?

I'm still a newbie, but I'd start over with a proper placement, not sure if this game will teach you anything.

As far as I understand it, the key hex in Netherland (and the early phase of fall Gelb) is Rotterdam. To access Antwerp. For a smooth crossing of the Dyle line.

[Jagdtiger14]

Barbuesque: Yes, you are correct about that. Its not my test, so I don't want to inject myself too much...but the two INF divisions in Kiel were meant for that operation. It could be that the test involves the Germans not being successful at getting Rotterdam before the CW can get there (Germany getting it is never a guarantee anyway)...the storm weather result would have halted the invasion...so I would have held off on the Netherlands DOW. It will take the Germans an extra impulse to extricate the CW, which will put the Germans on a tough and reduced time schedule. However, the positive for Germany is that the CW HQ is being sent, which I think is a big mistake because the Germans will kill it, which also means little or no CW commitment in France. The way I play the Wallies is extreme CW commitment with both CW HQ's to get as many units there as possible. I would put cheap soak-off units in Rotterdam (MIL and/or GAR) instead.

In Poland, the Polish set up was kind of strange for me...I think it was meant to reduce the chances of Germany getting the resources in the south. The Polish HQ out there was dangerous as Germany could have kept it from getting back to Warsaw. The attack I would have made would have been against the 4 factor INF in the south, getting Germany one resource immediately (that would have been my one and only attack in a combined impulse).

[Centuur]

The best way for the Axis to counter such an aggressive CW play in France is to have Italy in the war and entering Egypt as soon as Wavell leaves that country.

But it depends on the setup of the Italians. If Italy does it setup correctly (with Balbo and aircraft in Lybia), Wavell should stay in Egypt until he is relieved by units out of India, Australia or South Africa.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Barbuesque: Yes, you are correct about that. Its not my test, so I don't want to inject myself too much...but the two INF divisions in Kiel were meant for that operation. It could be that the test involves the Germans not being successful at getting Rotterdam before the CW can get there (Germany getting it is never a guarantee anyway)...the storm weather result would have halted the invasion...so I would have held off on the Netherlands DOW. It will take the Germans an extra impulse to extricate the CW, which will put the Germans on a tough and reduced time schedule. However, the positive for Germany is that the CW HQ is being sent, which I think is a big mistake because the Germans will kill it, which also means little or no CW commitment in France. The way I play the Wallies is extreme CW commitment with both CW HQ's to get as many units there as possible. I would put cheap soak-off units in Rotterdam (MIL and/or GAR) instead.

In Poland, the Polish set up was kind of strange for me...I think it was meant to reduce the chances of Germany getting the resources in the south. The Polish HQ out there was dangerous as Germany could have kept it from getting back to Warsaw. The attack I would have made would have been against the 4 factor INF in the south, getting Germany one resource immediately (that would have been my one and only attack in a combined impulse).

warspite1

In Poland, the Polish set up was kind of strange for me...I think it was meant to reduce the chances of Germany getting the resources in the south.

Well yes, that was the stated German aim. So the Poles seek to counter this - why is it strange that one's enemy tries to frustrate his opponents plans??

The Polish HQ out there was dangerous as Germany could have kept it from getting back to Warsaw.

Can you talk me through that please? How do the Germans stop Smigly-Rydz reaching Warsaw?

The attack I would have made would have been against the 4 factor INF in the south, getting Germany one resource immediately (that would have been my one and only attack in a combined impulse).

You have lost me. What combined impulse? Are you saying no attack in the first impulse at all in Poland? Or are you putting the German Fleet to sea on the 1st impulse where they can be surprised in the 2nd? Doing Plan A first just seems to be confusing things even more. Let's assume the weather gods are with the Germans. Right what are the Germans doing in each impulse of Sep/Oct 1939 please?

but the two INF divisions in Kiel were meant for that operation.

Yes, I have put the divisions there as per your request. You were critical of my opening in AARse III (fair enough) and suggested a much better way. I am simply trying to put your "better way" to the test - first as Plan A (the weather and dice do not go to plan for the Germans - in which case you may well be as behind schedule as I was in my game PLUS you still have Poland being a pain) and Plan B (these elements go in the Germans favour - so how certain is it that the Germans can capitalise and see early French destruction?).

What, amongst a number of things, I am not getting is that this Fall Gelb plan seems to be reliant upon the Germans getting lucky in the North Sea (regardless of when you put the ships to sea) and for which you seem happy to lose 2 Corps in Poland by not having a DIV to take a loss.

I'm still a newbie ....... not sure if this game will teach you anything.

As for Barbuesque's comment, I am learning a lot from this exercise - thanks anyway. You are a newbie and you are not learning anything from this? Wow - you are clearly smarter than I will ever be - albeit that is not saying much.

As far as I understand it, the key hex in Netherland (and the early phase of fall Gelb) is Rotterdam.

To say that Rotterdam is key is kind of No $%^& Sherlock territory - that is what Jagdtiger has been saying all along. What I would like it to know how the Germans are going to take it? Even if the CW units are flipped they are not going to be out of supply and they will almost certainly have a ton of defensive shore bombardment to assist their defence.

[Barbuesque]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I'm still a newbie ....... not sure if this game will teach you anything.

As for Barbuesque's comment, I am learning a lot from this exercise - thanks anyway. You are a newbie and you are not learning anything from this? Wow - you are clearly smarter than I will ever be - albeit that is not saying much.

As far as I understand it, the key hex in Netherland (and the early phase of fall Gelb) is Rotterdam.

To say that Rotterdam is key is kind of No $%^& Sherlock territory - that is what Jagdtiger has been saying all along. What I would like it to know how the Germans are going to take it? Even if the CW units are flipped they are not going to be out of supply and they will almost certainly have a ton of defensive shore bombardment to assist their defence.

You misunderstood what I meant by being a newbie. I meant that my comments should be considered as such - with a grain of salt.

Why I am suggesting to restart, is that if the CW are not in an optimal position to counter this move, with units in a high sea box and relatively cheap units available to be sent in Rotterdam. I don't think there is an much of an opportunity cost in doing so, if any.

[Jagdtiger14]

Warspite: I have no problem trying to deal with the stated German strategy in Poland...that is not strange at all. The question is how with the limited resources the Poles have. I still prefer the normal set up as it inflict the greatest chance of inflicting casualties on the Germans. The strange thing was why the HQ was way out there?

My German move: Combined (you get one land attack, one naval move, six land moves and I think 3 air?). The naval move would be one CL with the 1-3 INF div into the 4 box (acceptable losses if the CW/French find it on the surprise impulse). One land move would be the 6-4 INF in Prussia moved to the hex between Warsaw and Brest. This ZOC's the HQ and prevents it from being where it should be, and exposes it to elimination the following impulse. With the bad weather roll, it wouldn't be able to make it far in the next Allied impulse either.