machine guns

[davebob]

Whenever I attack w an infantry unit which includes machine guns, those guns guns seem to suffer unacceptable losses. OK, not an attack weapon, but often the unit is in good position to offer support. So, considering a method of preserving those experienced mgs. Here is the question; a hex contains 30 infantry, and 6 mg, if I split the unit into 25 rifle, and 5 rifle +6 mg; does the combat engine treat defense the same as if they are all one unit ?

[tinjaw]

Yes, if you split the forces into two units and attack with both units, it is the same as if you attack with all of them in one unit.

MGs are primarily defensive weapons. There purpose is to cover a certain area and keep the enemy pinned down so the enemy can't advance. MGs don't play a primary role in offensive operations. If you charge forward with a machine gun you are just as likely to get cut down as if you were carrying a rifle.

[davebob]

The purpose of splitting the unit, is to assault with the 25 rifle, then advance the 5 rifle 6 mg unit to provide defense in the captured hex. Thereby, not losing mg in the assault. Question is , do the split units offer the same defense as the combined one. Also,mgs certainly aid in attack by providing long range covering fire. Not a design flaw for me in a game of this scale.

[ironduke1955]

Not for me to speculate but Machine guns are in the same bracket as riflemen, they fight at about the same effective range. If the casualty rate is high, think of it as a weapon those defending or attacking infantry will want to take out, it produces a large volume of fire from a fixed point it kind of draws attention to itself on the battlefield, not usually a good thing. Having said that defending infantry with Machine Guns receive a huge bonus, not so great on attack because the defenders are normally in cover, where as the poor sod on the attack is normally exposed at some point.

[tinjaw]

ORIGINAL: davebob

The purpose of splitting the unit, is to assault with the 25 rifle, then advance the 5 rifle 6 mg unit to provide defense in the captured hex. Thereby, not losing mg in the assault. Question is , do the split units offer the same defense as the combined one.

Yes, they do. When a hex is attacked, all the units in the hex participate in the defense.

[Josh]

ORIGINAL: davebob

Whenever I attack w an infantry unit which includes machine guns, those guns guns seem to suffer unacceptable losses. OK, not an attack weapon, but often the unit is in good position to offer support. So, considering a method of preserving those experienced mgs. Here is the question; a hex contains 30 infantry, and 6 mg, if I split the unit into 25 rifle, and 5 rifle +6 mg; does the combat engine treat defense the same as if they are all one unit ?

I asked Vic a long time ago the same question, and it's as intended, I think the answer goes along the lines of the Mg is a defense weapon so they take more casualties when attacking. Not entirely agree with that because I think they stay back and give covering fire, but okay no biggie for me. So yes you could split them up, leaving them behind when attacking...*but* that doesn't get them experience. Sometimes the Mg unit does get attacked and they earn loads of exp when that happens. Anyways, I leave the unit intact and cope with the losses, too many mouse clicks involved see? [:D]

[ironduke1955]

The term covering fire can be a term used to suppose that as you advance any fire coming from behind you is good fire, I am fairly sure that 1st World War infantry did not have covering fire from their own Machine Guns as they advanced across no mans land, the last thing they would have wanted was a hail of bullets from both directions. Covering fire implies fire laid down on a specific target like say a opposing machine gun position, all well and good supposing the targeted Machine Position was not below a rise in the ground say or in a pill box set emplacement or any other myriad of scenarios. Compare that to a Machine gun on defense that simply positions then lays down a arc of fire, with no possibility of collateral damage. The Machine gun is definitely a weapon of defense, if it is moved on the battlefield while it is moving the Machine Gunners become non combatants and vulnerable targets.

[davebob]

Josh, I totally get the extra clicks and unit count issue. I mostly play small maps w limited production to manage this problem. I wonder if the experience gained in mg attack,wouldn't just be lost to replacements tho. Seems like maybe retaining hvy inf may lead to cheaper, more experienced units in the long run.I'll try it out. Now, I have two types of inf units, one w rifle mg baz, and one rifle mortar bazooka.my new setup will be rifle and individual hvy wpn groups to go where needed

[Josh]

Well see that's part of the fun in ATG, try out several unit compositions. After many years of playing I recently tried out a new unit composition where I combine Armour and Inf in the same unit, I've discovered that my Inf gets more exp faster this way. Because in Inf only units they died so fast [:(] that my pixeltruppen rarely got into the 70 or 80 exp. I still build around 50 strength points units, mostly, with exceptions here and there, but an armoured unit usually has now Inf in it as well. Almost all of my units have now 2 Flak as well, where I used to have Flak only units. That has the drawback that Flak only units only get exp when battling planes. At sectors where I expect no battles but I have to place some defending units nonetheless, I usually make units consisting of 5 Mg's, 2 AT guns and 2 Flak and 10 sometimes 20 Inf per unit, they can either hold the line or buy you some time. For fast recon I build units of 5 jeeps and some Inf, fast cheap and expendable.

[davebob]

Fun with jeeps: I like to add a couple motars with infantry on those jeeps to cleanup those annoying 1-5 sft ai stragglers. Like "rat patrols" Course we know mgs won't work for this.