GD 1938 - Gets an Update

[falco148]

Hmm....interesting. This game promotes duplicity and devious Machiavellianism to an even more extreme degree than I realized. I think I'm playing the wrong game.

[cpdeyoung]

This game promotes duplicity and devious Machiavellianism to an even more extreme degree than I realized.

This is a simulation of the Second World War, so, yes.

Chuck

[falco148]

You appear to be pursuing the wrong kind of hobby my friend. Instead of wargaming, I think you would be happier selling dodgy insurance scams over the internet or peddling Scientology on some street corner somewhere.

[ernieschwitz]

ORIGINAL: falco
Hmm....interesting. This game promotes duplicity and devious Machiavellianism to an even more extreme degree than I realized. I think I'm playing the wrong game.

Not sure if this is meant as high praise, or an insult...

[cpdeyoung]

@Falco,

Why are you upset? I am playing the Soviets, and I played for the Soviets. I said I took advantage of your inexperience and I did, but please believe me I could have done much, much worse to you. I held back, believe it or not.

You left no garrisons in the East, period. You still have nothing defending Italy that I can see.

You chose the European Axis, and they do not win wars based on friendly relations with other powers.

You are playing a multiplayer game with diplomacy. I am playing Stalin, you are playing Hitler and Mussolini. I was playing as Stalin, not myself. You chose the Axis, I played against Hitler.

Has your experience of wargamming not acquainted you with Realpolitik? Most players of this game have felt the knife in the back, please be sure it was not personal. I am so sorry you took it that way.

Chuck

[falco148]

You think I'm that stupid? I do realize you could have done much worse. Yes, I also believe you held back, believe it or not.

What I do object to is smarmy boasting on internet forums about taking advantage of inexperienced players. Doesn't matter if its me
or anyone else. But hey, if that's what gives your overinflated ego a boost, who am I to object?


I left no garrisons in the East.....I have nothing defending Italy? WTH are you talking about?? Plenty of troops on the German-
Russian border & plenty of troops still in Italy. You'll have to try harder than that my friend.

[cpdeyoung]

@falco

I was not boasting. If anything I was mildly ashamed of taking advantage of you. Why would I be proud of taking advantage of you?

I was afraid the comments about the Soviets doing so well might influence Ernie to make unnecessary changes. I was admitting I "took advantage", not boasting about it.

I never thought you were stupid, and when I commented on your inexperience it was only to make sure Ernie knew, and Twotribes remembered, that this was very early for you in this complex game. I never meant to insult you, and really was not boasting. The post that so bothered you was only a technical thing having to do with a play balance question.

Isn't it astonishing how difficult it is to have two people read comments and draw the same meaning.

Chuck

[Josh]

Gee, maybe not my place to post something here, but "smarmy boasting" and "overinflated ego"? Say what? Chuck has been around here for a while and never ever seen anything close to that in any of his posts. Enjoyed his many AAR's in various games...so yeah no need for harsh feelings.
just my 2 cts.
Peace.

[ironduke1955]

On the topic only, I tend to agree with cpdeyoung, changing game balance on the results of one game, is fairly knee jerk way of developing a mod. The Germans lost the Second World War, is it therefore necessary to balance the 2nd World War so the Germans have a better chance next time. Not really the aim is to find the historical balance of forces and let players run with it, so far Claus and Alexandre have done a wonderful job of finding that balance. Its not a exact science and often just a matter of opinion.

[Vic]

Really enjoyed playing China in game#14. Still hanging on as a minor axis ally as we speak.
Not sure I already reported it but there is a minor rail issue in central China with the rail not connecting up.
Tanks might be a bit more vulnerable to counter attack. They seem to do quite well without infantry support.
Otherwise really not any complaints. It just all works.
Excellent multiplayer scenario and super use of the ATG engine

Best wishes,
vic

[cpdeyoung]

I could not agree more. I have really played nothing else since I found this game.

Chuck

[ernieschwitz]

Actually I was not going to change the Soviets, or any other major power, as is, atm. However I do think that the minors are overcome alittle too easily. I think I might make some changes to them. But that is all on the drawing board, for now... No changes are definate at the moment.

[falco148]

cpdeyoung wrote......
"Isn't it astonishing how difficult it is to have two people read comments and draw the same meaning."

No, not particularly 'astonishing' or 'difficult' in the least. I read your comments and drew my own conclusions from what you wrote.

[ironduke1955]

I find the Czechs fairly powerful and as historically unlike Poland for the Germans it was just a matter of pushing over some border barriers. Not much real fighting I find that the Germans can take several months to overcome the Czechs.

[Twotribes]

The czechs were more prepared for war then the Poles and they had the best light tanks of the war at that time. If they had not been sold out by the british and the French they could have put up a stiff fight.

[ironduke1955]

"The czechs were more prepared for war then the Poles and they had the best light tanks of the war at that time. If they had not been sold out by the british and the French they could have put up a stiff fight." Quote from Twotribes

If you are talking about the Munich agreement that only applied to the Sudetenland, the rest of Czechoslovakia was just taken by the Germans. And if the Czechs had wanted to fight Germany over the Sudetenland they could have done it, the thing is they knew that it would be futile, its why the Czech's ceded first the Sudetenland and eventually surrendered all of their country without a fight, because its a fight they couldn't win. And to be honest the French or the British could do very little in real terms to stop it, its not as if the British or the French had a border with Czechoslovakia. And during the entire First World War they had been unable to place a boot on German soil. Its simple manpower 5 Million Czechs can't beat 90 Million Germans, good or bad light tanks would not have made a lot of difference. The grievance created by taking German territory and handing it to its neighbors turned out to be fuel for the Second World War.

[Twotribes]

Remind me of the borders Great Briton and France shared with Poland? The British sold out the Czechs and toild them to accept the loss of the Sudetenland the best defense terrain they had.

[ironduke1955]

Ok did France and Britain save Poland ?

"Sold out" is a emotive term a simplistic way to explain a complex geopolitical situation, the British and French people would have done anything to avoid another war, Politicians that wish to get elected will avoid frightening the populace with talk of war, the German people because of the indignities heaped on the them by the treaty of Versailles, the annexation of German territory with indigenous German population the payment of War reparations and the restrictions on German military, the Germans were willing to allow the worst kind of political leadership as a means to the end of regaining their perceived and real loss of national pride.

The French had already put their cards on the table, they were going to sit behind the Maginot line, ten additional armored divisions sitting on the German border, would have set out a clear signal to the Germans of French intentions, and been a lot cheaper than the Maginot Line. The signal the Maginot line gave was that France was not going to project its military power but sit on its hands.

[Vic]

Hi Ernie,

GD14 is almost finished. Enjoyed it a lot. A few final minor points of feedback. Overall it plays great.

-Tanks in ATG are weaker on defense and especially the heavy ones are vulnerable to infantry counter attack. This is done for a gameplay balance reason to give a counter strategy to tanks. They seem a bit to dominant in GD to me.
-I found myself repeatedly using 1 power point units as kamikaze scouts to do recon on a hex. I made a note-to-self for engine design to see if I can improve FOW rules here for a next patch, but in the meantime you could use the rulevar that gives minimum power point rule for taking a hex to avoid this. Well or charge that 1 PP for a formation
-For newbees some cost versus utility analysis on the different troops and equipment might be nice (like i once did for ATG with the strategy guide), as I had the idea some stuff was not really worth the production cost. But maybe this was due to playing China where conscripts seemed to be the better choice versus almost all other kinds of equipment.

Thanks Ernie!

best wishes,
Vic

[baloo7777]

Vic
[/quote]

-Tanks in ATG are weaker on defense and especially the heavy ones are vulnerable to infantry counter attack. This is done for a gameplay balance reason to give a counter strategy to tanks. They seem a bit to dominant in GD to me.

As a relative newbie, I found Tanks to be very strong in this mod like you said. I also cannot find much in the way of aircraft that can hit tanks hard, one of my pet peeves. I thought maybe it was the time period represented, the mid to late '30s. Perhaps air power was not yet able to blast through the weaker top armor yet?
The mod is still so excellent that it has become mainly the only thing I play though. And the diplomacy is like a wild card!