Air combat

Gary Grigsby’s War in the West 1943-45 is the most ambitious and detailed computer wargame on the Western Front of World War II ever made. Starting with the Summer 1943 invasions of Sicily and Italy and proceeding through the invasions of France and the drive into Germany, War in the West brings you all the Allied campaigns in Western Europe and the capability to re-fight the Western Front according to your plan.

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MTTODD
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Air combat

Post by MTTODD »

How detailed is the air combat model?

For example when you look at the aircraft stats it states climb rate but not diving speed. Does this mean that dive speed is not
taken into account in the combat model. (this would not model the FW-190 superior dive speed for example, but would show the BF-109 climb advantage)

Just interetsted in how the combat is resolved.

Many thanks for any help.



MTTODD
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:50 pm

RE: Air combat

Post by MTTODD »

A lot of views, but no answers!

Can anyone provide some light on my question.

Disappointing that a few other peoples questions have no replays as well, do not the developers look at these forums ?

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loki100
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RE: Air combat

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: MTTODD

How detailed is the air combat model?

For example when you look at the aircraft stats it states climb rate but not diving speed. Does this mean that dive speed is not
taken into account in the combat model. (this would not model the FW-190 superior dive speed for example, but would show the BF-109 climb advantage)

Just interetsted in how the combat is resolved.

Many thanks for any help.

Well this is all from observation and really from experience of WiTE where you have more direct (too much actually) control over the airwar.

So for me, the key numbers for air to air combat are:

max speed+rate of climb - all things being equal the plane with the better stats here will win a battle (ie you are more likely to be in a position to shoot first)
once the planes close - then maneuver matters
durability is the ability to absorb damage

in WiTE I'm pretty sure each plane only fires once, think the system in WiTW may be more sophisticated

once all the pre-combat moves are done, damage is a product of rate of fire and anti-air value for the weapon system (remember some planes have more than one).

In addition, experience seems to modify the gain from speed/climb/maneuver and morale is the willingness to press home.

Quite common in WiTE, especially in 1941 with the Soviets is the message '***IAD turned back' - in other words they failed a morale check.

What happens in WiTE, at least up to 1943 is that Soviet fighters usually lack morale and experience but up the Yak-9 suffer for speed/climb, so inevitably the Germans get a first shot. The one thing the Soviets have in their favour is a better air machine gun, so if they get to shoot, it can be very damaging. Of course the other advantage is numbers.

In WiTW, my view is that Spitfires and P-47s can match anything the Germans have but are often hampered by drop tanks (check out the aircraft stats). For good reason, the Allies prioritise range over combat performance while the Germans could emphasise combat performance over range. But of course by early 1944, the Allies are going to dominate the skies.



MTTODD
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:50 pm

RE: Air combat

Post by MTTODD »

Hi,

Thanks for your reply!

One of the reasons for my questions was that generally the stats for BF-109 seem to be better than the FW-109, when
I always was under the impression that the FW-109 was superior,

Thanks again for getting back.
Denniss
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RE: Air combat

Post by Denniss »

Both Bf 109 and Fw 109 had Pros and Cons vs each other. Net effect is an almost similar mvr rating.
WitE dev team - (aircraft data)
WitE 1.08+ dev team (data/scenario maintainer)
WitW dev team (aircraft data, partial data/scenario maintainer)
WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)
chaos45
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RE: Air combat

Post by chaos45 »

From everything Ive read including comments from the guys that flew both...it was felt the FW-190 was a superior aircraft over the 109.

As well in most this series of games the allied aircraft almost always seem to be better/do better than German aircraft which aside from maybe the randomness of pilot quality should be equal.

This was really apparent in the old bombing of the reich game GG designed. Basically as the Geramans u just sacrificed whatever first couple fighter groups went in to be slaughtered by the awesome allied fighters to run them out of fuel then hit the bombers with your twin engined and FW190s with rockets.

By 1944 in general allied fighters should do better purely because of pilot experience....but in my game play of the older game experience didnt seem to matter allied fighters were just an I win button....figure he has carried that over to this system.
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loki100
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RE: Air combat

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Both Bf 109 and Fw 109 had Pros and Cons vs each other. Net effect is an almost similar mvr rating.

In WiTE, I've come to be more worried about the FW-190s than then Bf-109s. I think its because they may be a bit less agile but seem to be a lot tougher and that negates the one technical Soviet advantage of having a more powerful weapon than the Germans. They are still more agile than most early/mid game Soviet fighters so they retain enough of an advantage in that respect as well.

ORIGINAL: chaos45

From everything Ive read including comments from the guys that flew both...it was felt the FW-190 was a superior aircraft over the 109.

As well in most this series of games the allied aircraft almost always seem to be better/do better than German aircraft which aside from maybe the randomness of pilot quality should be equal.

This was really apparent in the old bombing of the reich game GG designed. Basically as the Geramans u just sacrificed whatever first couple fighter groups went in to be slaughtered by the awesome allied fighters to run them out of fuel then hit the bombers with your twin engined and FW190s with rockets.

By 1944 in general allied fighters should do better purely because of pilot experience....but in my game play of the older game experience didnt seem to matter allied fighters were just an I win button....figure he has carried that over to this system.

My feeling is its the arrival of the slightly longer ranged P-47 (the *-15?) that seems to shift the air war in the allies favour. Once you can deploy that in numbers, if you bomb within fighter range, then Luftwaffe losses escalate. You can almost start using your bombers as bait and actually go looking for the Luftwaffe. Of course at the same stage, you also start the 1944 build up meaning you can dominate in quantitative terms as well.
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