GD1938 Game 21

[ironduke1955]

As game 19 is on slow time, game 21 is open for players. If you state your preferred nationality and any other preferences like shared intelligence.
We can get this up and running fairly quickly, and lets not slacken because we are being beaten bloody just imagine the damage metaphorically speaking you are doing to your opponents fists (works for me[:)])

[falco148]

I'm in. Germany or USA

[baloo7777]

I would like to attempt to play the Soviets. Choices: 1.Soviets 2.France 3.Italy. Game 19 seems to have come to a halt?!!

[Twotribes]

I am in Umm USA , United Kingdom, or Japan.

[LJBurstyn]

Chooice for me in order
Japan
USA

[cpdeyoung]

Game 19 seems to be running again.

Lets see if we can get some shape to nations :

baloo77 : Soviets
falco : Germany
LJBurstyn : Japan
Twotribes : USA

Ironduke
cpdeyoung

Chuck

[ironduke1955]

China is fine for me.

[cpdeyoung]

It seems the British and French are open.

baloo77 : Soviets
falco : Germany
LJBurstyn : Japan
Twotribes : USA
Ironduke1955 : China
cpdeyoung : GB/FR.

If this works for all then Ironduke will invite us to play Game 21 of GD1938.

My preferences on play options.

Shared Recon : Off
Giving units : Off
Ernie's latest build.

Chuck

[ironduke1955]

I guess Falco will be Germany and Italy

[Twotribes]

There is absolutely no reason to turn off sharing units. It was documented repeatedly in WW2 that allies shared equipment and troops. It is bad enough you turn off intel when in reality all sides shared intel with their allies.

[cpdeyoung]

I have no concerns with the concept - it is the execution that bothers me. It is not uncommon for all French forces to be given to the British. I have done it myself, but could it have worked in reality? In my recent games I have used piles of Italians in German uniforms, probably hundreds of thousands of men. Could it happen - nope, the Italians were not that fond of the Germans. Some American fought in the RAF before we went to war, some served in China in the Flying Tigers, but how many American troops fought in the Red Army, the British Army, the Chinese Army? I think technology licensing would be Ok, so your factories would be able to build other nation's designs. I think a mechanism to ship equipment, but not crews would be Ok, The "sharing" of troops, where one nation's troops fought in another nations uniforms, was very unusual compared to what is allowed in this game.

Sharing Intel in this game is flawed. Sharing some intel is fine. For the Soviets to allow American observers in every part of their country is ludicrous. As a player I do not want the other players knowing everything I am doing. For all I know they are passing on information to other allies I may be at war with. If the Russo-German pact is on then they are technically allies. Does this mean Stalin would tell the Germans the location and strength of all Soviet units in the Far East? Sharing some intel is fine, complete exposure of locations and strength will prevent me from considering an alliance.

Another reason to avoid the "alliance" as implemented in this game is allied entry into your territory. In Game 16 there are Chinese units in French cities. If China goes for Hong Kong the alliances will cause battles in every city where Chinese troops are co-located with British or French troops. If you want to see misery have Britain and France both allied with China, and declare war on China with the British for some reason. Watch in horror as the French and British go to war, and fight a battle in every hex in France where they are defending against the Germans. This will be a battle you have no control over. The losses may well give the Germans the boost they need. At the end of the turn see all the British unsupplied, with two turns necessary to reestablish the "alliance". A British-French-Chinese alliance can only be annulled with these consequences. Just not worth it.

[falco148]

Pretty well argued. My vote is shared intel & units turned off I think.

BTW playing Germany & Italy in this game is not an absolute must for me. If someone else really wants to play either or both, I'm quite happy playing another side.

[Twotribes]

Well except a large number of french troops aircraft and ships did in fact join the British as France fell. The Americans gave Millions of tons of equipment air craft tanks and vehicles to her allies. The British got Grant tanks and M4 Tanks as well as half tracks weapons and supplies, the Soviets got Aircraft tanks trucks trains half tracks artillery and supplies from the US.

[ironduke1955]

If you don't mind swapping I could take Germany and Italy, I have made so many embarrassing mistakes in games 14 and 15 that it would be fun to try and get it right this time.

[falco148]

Yep....I'm quite happy playing China again -lol.

[ironduke1955]

Thanks for that, I'm serious about the mistakes the handling of the Italians especially in game 14 was pretty awful.

[baloo7777]

I think the arguments for/against shared units and shared recon are very well said. If we have a vote, I vote for shared units on and shared recon off. I like the idea of lend-lease from the US and joint attacks. I do not like having my Allies (which seem to change quite often in practice with this mod) knowing everything I am doing. If I want to, I can always send my Allies messages telling them the info I want them to know.

[Twotribes]

Yes my official vote is on for shared units and I can live with recon off.

[ironduke1955]

As I read it its
Shared Units - yes
Shared reconnaissance - No

[Twotribes]

So that is decided when do we start?