question on ship acceleration IRL

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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MrBlizzard
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question on ship acceleration IRL

Post by MrBlizzard »

In game is offered to Japan the possibility to accelerate ships halving the time needed to complete.
This is not free 'cause the acceleration triples the ship's cost in naval points spent each day
Often I halt Musashi and Yamato to accelerate late CVs; it's possible for Japan to have all CVs in early '44. Also those Unryus that weren't completed IRL So a huge improvement compared to what Japan had in history.
If Midway doesn't happens and CVs are accelerated the Allied must wait more time to have sea dominance and the offensives have to be more cautious.

I wonder if in real life would have really been possible halving the time of construction of a ship simply having more resources or this feature is just for game balacement?
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DanSez
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RE: ship acceleration

Post by DanSez »


I think you would have to cancel more than just the two big battleships to accelerate all of the Japanese carriers. You would also not be able to produce as many DDs in the first years of the war unless you also expanded the naval yards significantly.

From reading a sampling of AARs, it appears that the carriers that are scheduled for '45 delivery are usually written off (not produced). Some also consider the Shinano not worth the cost to build, much less accelerate. I am on the fence on that one. Again, consider all the DDs you could have produced by building/accelerating a carrier from 1945 till completion.

The brains behind Reluctant Admiral/Between the Storms have done research and made educated guesses about just how much could have been produced if the Japanese had not invested so much in Musashi and Yamato. Roughly 2 Shokakus and change (BC/CA/CL/DDs??) for each.

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RE: ship acceleration

Post by crsutton »

What is not featured in the game were the political costs of such an action. The Japanese navy was very conservative and the two big BBs were items of tremendous prestige both to the navy and the nation as a whole. Even though it made sense to not even build the super BBs, I have little doubt that there would have be no way to stop construction-especially after it had begun. I always contended that there should be a massive PP hit (a division's worth) whenever the Japanese player opts to stop construction on either of these BBs.
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RE: ship acceleration

Post by Zorch »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

What is not featured in the game were the political costs of such an action. The Japanese navy was very conservative and the two big BBs were items of tremendous prestige both to the navy and the nation as a whole. Even though it made sense to not even build the super BBs, I have little doubt that there would have be no way to stop construction-especially after it had begun. I always contended that there should be a massive PP hit (a division's worth) whenever the Japanese player opts to stop construction on either of these BBs.
Until the Battle of Midway (or some equivalent loss of flattops).
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RE: question on ship acceleration IRL

Post by Chickenboy »

My opinion is that there is precedence to the expedited construction / delivery of ships that is mirrored by the game. Pre-war and early war Allied ship building was slower and more deliberate than it was late war, particularly for those 'franchised' elements of ship production. How long did it take early war Liberty ships versus late war liberty ships to come off the slips? What about LSTs? DDs? CVEs? By 'spending' more time and effort, and using common designs, you can simplify and make ship building faster.

I think the game does this fairly WRT the IJ shipbuilding program. It synthesizes the greater strategic shift of scarce resources accordingly.
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RE: question on ship acceleration IRL

Post by pmelheck1 »

Another question would be that if the carriers were accelerated, what would the cargo ship situation look like with more than a few cargo types delayed to speed production of the carriers. Without the cargo and tankers what would the carriers be doing other than waiting for supplies to be delivered by significantly fewer cargo ships and tankers. Would the economic collapse occur earlier with the loss of merchant ships that are not replaced except much later but with no delay in production of Allied subs.
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RE: question on ship acceleration IRL

Post by MrBlizzard »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

My opinion is that there is precedence to the expedited construction / delivery of ships that is mirrored by the game. Pre-war and early war Allied ship building was slower and more deliberate than it was late war, particularly for those 'franchised' elements of ship production. How long did it take early war Liberty ships versus late war liberty ships to come off the slips? What about LSTs? DDs? CVEs? By 'spending' more time and effort, and using common designs, you can simplify and make ship building faster.

I think the game does this fairly WRT the IJ shipbuilding program. It synthesizes the greater strategic shift of scarce resources accordingly.
The reduced time spent in later ships of the same class can be probably explained also with the learning curve and best practices in repeating the same operations.

In game there's the possibility to build ships in half time than scheduled. E.g. an Unryu cv can be built in just 300 days instead than normal 600 days.
Of course you have to stop something else to get the naval points and this reflects very well the scarcity of resources for stretched Japan economy.
But I wonder if it was really possible to perform such prodigious accelerations IRL[&:]
I know that Lexington CV was damaged in Coral sea battle and was judged that she needed two weeks for repair in drydock by inspectors.
Well with hard work, night work was possible to repair it in just two days!!
So prodigious accelerations were possibile, at least in repairs. just wonder if it could be the same in building.
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RE: question on ship acceleration IRL

Post by rustysi »

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

My opinion is that there is precedence to the expedited construction / delivery of ships that is mirrored by the game. Pre-war and early war Allied ship building was slower and more deliberate than it was late war, particularly for those 'franchised' elements of ship production. How long did it take early war Liberty ships versus late war liberty ships to come off the slips? What about LSTs? DDs? CVEs? By 'spending' more time and effort, and using common designs, you can simplify and make ship building faster.

I think the game does this fairly WRT the IJ shipbuilding program. It synthesizes the greater strategic shift of scarce resources accordingly.
The reduced time spent in later ships of the same class can be probably explained also with the learning curve and best practices in repeating the same operations.

In game there's the possibility to build ships in half time than scheduled. E.g. an Unryu cv can be built in just 300 days instead than normal 600 days.
Of course you have to stop something else to get the naval points and this reflects very well the scarcity of resources for stretched Japan economy.
But I wonder if it was really possible to perform such prodigious accelerations IRL[&:]
I know that Lexington CV was damaged in Coral sea battle and was judged that she needed two weeks for repair in drydock by inspectors.
Well with hard work, night work was possible to repair it in just two days!!
So prodigious accelerations were possibile, at least in repairs. just wonder if it could be the same in building.

No 'Lady Lex' was sunk, Yorktown was damaged and patched up in two days. Things that could be left for later were, they just needed to get her combat ready for Midway. Still no small feat though.




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RE: question on ship acceleration IRL

Post by MrBlizzard »

ORIGINAL: rustysi

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

My opinion is that there is precedence to the expedited construction / delivery of ships that is mirrored by the game. Pre-war and early war Allied ship building was slower and more deliberate than it was late war, particularly for those 'franchised' elements of ship production. How long did it take early war Liberty ships versus late war liberty ships to come off the slips? What about LSTs? DDs? CVEs? By 'spending' more time and effort, and using common designs, you can simplify and make ship building faster.

I think the game does this fairly WRT the IJ shipbuilding program. It synthesizes the greater strategic shift of scarce resources accordingly.
The reduced time spent in later ships of the same class can be probably explained also with the learning curve and best practices in repeating the same operations.

In game there's the possibility to build ships in half time than scheduled. E.g. an Unryu cv can be built in just 300 days instead than normal 600 days.
Of course you have to stop something else to get the naval points and this reflects very well the scarcity of resources for stretched Japan economy.
But I wonder if it was really possible to perform such prodigious accelerations IRL[&:]
I know that Lexington CV was damaged in Coral sea battle and was judged that she needed two weeks for repair in drydock by inspectors.
Well with hard work, night work was possible to repair it in just two days!!
So prodigious accelerations were possibile, at least in repairs. just wonder if it could be the same in building.

No 'Lady Lex' was sunk, Yorktown was damaged and patched up in two days. Things that could be left for later were, they just needed to get her combat ready for Midway. Still no small feat though.




Ops thanks I always mix up Lexington and Yorktown, don't know why
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LeeChard
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RE: question on ship acceleration IRL

Post by LeeChard »

I am under the impression that IRL Yamato was so far along that it might as well be finished.
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