Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
I am reading about the Komodorsky Islands Battle and started thinking.
Why wasnt this place used for staging B29 raids ? I believe it's in range...
And ... assuming it's invaded, all of the islands in the chain .... I am guessing it'll be hard on USN to take it back ?
Why wasnt this place used for staging B29 raids ? I believe it's in range...
And ... assuming it's invaded, all of the islands in the chain .... I am guessing it'll be hard on USN to take it back ?
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
Just a guess, but weather in the Aleutians is terrible. Maybe for that reason the airbases there were not good choices for strategic bombing.
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
I thought about that but ... really ? Anyone who could build a b29 can build and maintain a base to fly them even during "cold weather".
Gamewise , I dont think that'll be a problem though , right ?
Gamewise , I dont think that'll be a problem though , right ?
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
Fog. The Japan current (warm) meets the cold currents from the north and FOG occurs.
Not to mention the cold, snow, and the rain in the "summer".
Also on some of the islands the ground is "spongy"; it is marsh-like and very wet. Hard to build airfields on this type of ground.
In the game it will suffer from the cold weather rules for ships (more damage possible) and increased bad weather for the aircraft that will limit your strikes.
Personally I would avoid this and use Central Pacific islands (easy to supply, in range of southern Japan, better weather).
Not to mention the cold, snow, and the rain in the "summer".
Also on some of the islands the ground is "spongy"; it is marsh-like and very wet. Hard to build airfields on this type of ground.
In the game it will suffer from the cold weather rules for ships (more damage possible) and increased bad weather for the aircraft that will limit your strikes.
Personally I would avoid this and use Central Pacific islands (easy to supply, in range of southern Japan, better weather).
WW2 logistics fanboy and
Rat Rancher
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Rat Rancher
Rat ranching for fun and profit, had better be fun, cause there is no profit.
- Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
There are penalties gamewise:ORIGINAL: oaltinyay
I thought about that but ... really ? Anyone who could build a b29 can build and maintain a base to fly them even during "cold weather".
Gamewise , I dont think that'll be a problem though , right ?
Cold Zones (Korea, Manchuria, Alaska, Siberia, the Aleutian Islands, the Himalayas/Tibet, Port
Stanley and an area of the Southern Ocean along the left side of the bottom map edge below
New Zealand and Australia) - The negative effects of these zones only function 4 months of the
year (winter) depending on the area; in the North they function November through February,
while in the South they function from May through August. Cold Zones during the winter impact
ground units the same way as Malaria Zones (above), with the following added penalties:
»» Ships moving in Cold Zones during the winter will suffer
operational system damage at double the normal rate.
»» All base construction in Cold Zones during winter takes twice as long.
»» Air units will fly 25% less aircraft on strike-type Missions.
»» Ground units unloading at an enemy base/beach or into a non-base hex with an
enemy unit will suffer roughly three times the losses they would normally suffer.
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
I see....
On the other hand, say .. if I dont see myself winning rapidly in Pacific... I would use these bases against Japan as 'best there is' option....
From the Japanese perspective, a) closer and easily defensible b) may act as base to interdict pacific convoys from USA mainland.
any ideas ?
On the other hand, say .. if I dont see myself winning rapidly in Pacific... I would use these bases against Japan as 'best there is' option....
From the Japanese perspective, a) closer and easily defensible b) may act as base to interdict pacific convoys from USA mainland.
any ideas ?
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
As the Allies, use the Aleutians as a stepping stone into the Kuriles then Hokkaido. It keeps the JFB thinking and dispersing troops to defend the north. You can build airbases which can handle B24 easily.
As the JFB, to stop the above. If you wanted you could continue onto Alaska, not sure why except in the case of total Allied collapse. Also your b) has merit, approaching the Allied LOC from the north.
As the JFB, to stop the above. If you wanted you could continue onto Alaska, not sure why except in the case of total Allied collapse. Also your b) has merit, approaching the Allied LOC from the north.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
B29s have a high service rating. I pretty much limit them to level 9 airfields and try to fly them only in decent weather.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
hmm, I don't think oaltinyay's idea b) is much use, since there's really not going to be a lot of Allied shipping that can't be more easily targeted from bases in the Marshalls / Gilberts.
now, an IJ early-game move to seize Adak could pay off as a spoiling attack, to deny it to the Allies for as long as possible - but building it up is a bad idea, any base-capabilities the IJ adds will only benefit the Allies when they take it back! IJ engineering efforts in the north might better be restricted to fortifying the Kuriles.
It can be really difficult to build bases up in the Arctic. I've had 94 Engr points at Dutch Harbor since shortly after 7 Dec 41. 5-1/2 months later, its 0 airfield is only 84% towards level 1.
now, an IJ early-game move to seize Adak could pay off as a spoiling attack, to deny it to the Allies for as long as possible - but building it up is a bad idea, any base-capabilities the IJ adds will only benefit the Allies when they take it back! IJ engineering efforts in the north might better be restricted to fortifying the Kuriles.
It can be really difficult to build bases up in the Arctic. I've had 94 Engr points at Dutch Harbor since shortly after 7 Dec 41. 5-1/2 months later, its 0 airfield is only 84% towards level 1.
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
Morrison gives a good description on these problems. Bombers bumping 30 feet up in the air when touching down.ORIGINAL: bartrat
Also on some of the islands the ground is "spongy"; it is marsh-like and very wet. Hard to build airfields on this type of ground.
Fred
River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
The Aleutians are the cauldron that generates most of the moisture that lands in North America west of the Rockies. The warm currents coming up from the equator collide with cold air and water coming down from the Arctic generating some of the worst weather on the planet. The game engine can't really reproduce just how awful a place it was to perform any kind of military operations.
My father was flying out of Attu in the last months of the war. The US had developed the ancestors of modern ground control operations just to be able to fly at all most days. Each plane had to be talked in by a ground controller closely watching a radar scope. Even then the accident rate was high. He said the entire time he was there they only took off once when it was clear enough to see past the engines. He learned they flew through a notch in the mountains immediately after take off and the sides of the mountain was littered with wrecks that didn't find the notch.
He loves airplanes, but won't fly in one again I think in large part because of his PTSD flying from there.
A couple of the Aleutian islands are large enough to accommodate B-24s, though there were never all that many bomber units in the theater. By the end of the war there were only 2 USAAF bomber squadrons in the entire theater, 1 B-25 and 1 B-24. The Aleutians are a subduction zone volcanic island chain (the Pacific Plate is being subducted just off the coast), this makes them young and very mountainous. Even if the weather could support large scale B-29 operations, the islands are too mountainous for basing many air units. There just isn't enough flat space (or space that can be made flat).
Bill
My father was flying out of Attu in the last months of the war. The US had developed the ancestors of modern ground control operations just to be able to fly at all most days. Each plane had to be talked in by a ground controller closely watching a radar scope. Even then the accident rate was high. He said the entire time he was there they only took off once when it was clear enough to see past the engines. He learned they flew through a notch in the mountains immediately after take off and the sides of the mountain was littered with wrecks that didn't find the notch.
He loves airplanes, but won't fly in one again I think in large part because of his PTSD flying from there.
A couple of the Aleutian islands are large enough to accommodate B-24s, though there were never all that many bomber units in the theater. By the end of the war there were only 2 USAAF bomber squadrons in the entire theater, 1 B-25 and 1 B-24. The Aleutians are a subduction zone volcanic island chain (the Pacific Plate is being subducted just off the coast), this makes them young and very mountainous. Even if the weather could support large scale B-29 operations, the islands are too mountainous for basing many air units. There just isn't enough flat space (or space that can be made flat).
Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
In my past game I fought a major campaign in the winter of 42 and 43 to take back the Aleutians. It pretty much was a waste of time and resources. In this campaign, I am not really fighting for them nor is my opponent trying to take them other than one or two key bases for patrols. We both realized that it is not the path to victory for either side.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
Thank you for your interesting posting!ORIGINAL: wdolson
The Aleutians are the cauldron that generates most of the moisture that lands in North America west of the Rockies. The warm currents coming up from the equator collide with cold air and water coming down from the Arctic generating some of the worst weather on the planet. The game engine can't really reproduce just how awful a place it was to perform any kind of military operations.
My father was flying out of Attu in the last months of the war. The US had developed the ancestors of modern ground control operations just to be able to fly at all most days. Each plane had to be talked in by a ground controller closely watching a radar scope. Even then the accident rate was high. He said the entire time he was there they only took off once when it was clear enough to see past the engines. He learned they flew through a notch in the mountains immediately after take off and the sides of the mountain was littered with wrecks that didn't find the notch.
He loves airplanes, but won't fly in one again I think in large part because of his PTSD flying from there.
A couple of the Aleutian islands are large enough to accommodate B-24s, though there were never all that many bomber units in the theater. By the end of the war there were only 2 USAAF bomber squadrons in the entire theater, 1 B-25 and 1 B-24. The Aleutians are a subduction zone volcanic island chain (the Pacific Plate is being subducted just off the coast), this makes them young and very mountainous. Even if the weather could support large scale B-29 operations, the islands are too mountainous for basing many air units. There just isn't enough flat space (or space that can be made flat).
Bill
Fred
River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
- wneumann
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RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
Occupy, build up and expand at least the major bases in the Aleutians as the Allied player, regardless of whether or not you're actually planning to launch a campaign in the North Pacific. You may change your mind later about plans in the North Pacific. Plus there may actually be a use for a fully developed port or airfield in the Aleutians that you haven't planned for originally - in that case it's there and handy.
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
ORIGINAL: jmalter
hmm, I don't think oaltinyay's idea b) is much use, since there's really not going to be a lot of Allied shipping that can't be more easily targeted from bases in the Marshalls / Gilberts.
now, an IJ early-game move to seize Adak could pay off as a spoiling attack, to deny it to the Allies for as long as possible - but building it up is a bad idea, any base-capabilities the IJ adds will only benefit the Allies when they take it back! IJ engineering efforts in the north might better be restricted to fortifying the Kuriles.
It can be really difficult to build bases up in the Arctic. I've had 94 Engr points at Dutch Harbor since shortly after 7 Dec 41. 5-1/2 months later, its 0 airfield is only 84% towards level 1.
Actually it is 43/3 and I have the entire CL and CA ( sans 2 old CA )complement for IJN. I can see a possibility of convoy raiding supported by KB and AOs...Allied player lost much of its CVEs so not much help from there...
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
Dont build an airbase on Dutch Harbour, just like IRL Unmak Island is a better option.
What does the JFB need to invest, a few Battalions to make a base and 1-2 AO's to refuel your Combat forces.
Having 2 approaches to the Allied LOC cant hurt, also provides an alternate line of retreat and makes the AFB think a little harder.
What does the JFB need to invest, a few Battalions to make a base and 1-2 AO's to refuel your Combat forces.
Having 2 approaches to the Allied LOC cant hurt, also provides an alternate line of retreat and makes the AFB think a little harder.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
I am simulating an attack run by 2 CL and 2 CA's supported by a single A0 and some CVLS for aircover and slowingdown , 3 days later out of Umnak I am in the convoy route to PH, 5 days out I can cause mischief in the bay area.
Well worth invading the place , I am guessing.
Well worth invading the place , I am guessing.
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
Once the LST arrives on the scene, the Allied player can easily move up the Aleutian chain by taking bases with level 0 ports but good airfields. This can be done in winter because there are too many for the Japanese to occupy. By the spring of 43 you should be in good position. The Japanese bases should be starving by then and easily invaded in mid 43. God bless the LST...
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
Delaying position for the Japanese - you do not want the Allies to knock on your northern doors in 1942!
RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese
Hmmm... especially if he's deficient in carriers but long on 4E Bombers...