Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

oaltinyay
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:52 pm

Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by oaltinyay »

I am reading about the Komodorsky Islands Battle and started thinking.

Why wasnt this place used for staging B29 raids ? I believe it's in range...

And ... assuming it's invaded, all of the islands in the chain .... I am guessing it'll be hard on USN to take it back ?
jwolf
Posts: 2493
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:02 pm

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by jwolf »

Just a guess, but weather in the Aleutians is terrible. Maybe for that reason the airbases there were not good choices for strategic bombing.
oaltinyay
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by oaltinyay »

I thought about that but ... really ? Anyone who could build a b29 can build and maintain a base to fly them even during "cold weather".

Gamewise , I dont think that'll be a problem though , right ?

User avatar
bartrat
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:43 pm
Location: USA

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by bartrat »

Fog. The Japan current (warm) meets the cold currents from the north and FOG occurs.
Not to mention the cold, snow, and the rain in the "summer".
Also on some of the islands the ground is "spongy"; it is marsh-like and very wet. Hard to build airfields on this type of ground.

In the game it will suffer from the cold weather rules for ships (more damage possible) and increased bad weather for the aircraft that will limit your strikes.
Personally I would avoid this and use Central Pacific islands (easy to supply, in range of southern Japan, better weather).
WW2 logistics fanboy and
Rat Rancher
Rat ranching for fun and profit, had better be fun, cause there is no profit.
User avatar
Jorge_Stanbury
Posts: 4345
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:57 pm
Location: Montreal

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

ORIGINAL: oaltinyay

I thought about that but ... really ? Anyone who could build a b29 can build and maintain a base to fly them even during "cold weather".

Gamewise , I dont think that'll be a problem though , right ?

There are penalties gamewise:

Cold Zones (Korea, Manchuria, Alaska, Siberia, the Aleutian Islands, the Himalayas/Tibet, Port
Stanley and an area of the Southern Ocean along the left side of the bottom map edge below
New Zealand and Australia) - The negative effects of these zones only function 4 months of the
year (winter) depending on the area; in the North they function November through February,
while in the South they function from May through August. Cold Zones during the winter impact
ground units the same way as Malaria Zones (above), with the following added penalties:
»» Ships moving in Cold Zones during the winter will suffer
operational system damage at double the normal rate.
»» All base construction in Cold Zones during winter takes twice as long.
»» Air units will fly 25% less aircraft on strike-type Missions.
»» Ground units unloading at an enemy base/beach or into a non-base hex with an
enemy unit will suffer roughly three times the losses they would normally suffer.
oaltinyay
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by oaltinyay »

I see....

On the other hand, say .. if I dont see myself winning rapidly in Pacific... I would use these bases against Japan as 'best there is' option....

From the Japanese perspective, a) closer and easily defensible b) may act as base to interdict pacific convoys from USA mainland.

any ideas ?
User avatar
JeffroK
Posts: 6395
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by JeffroK »

As the Allies, use the Aleutians as a stepping stone into the Kuriles then Hokkaido. It keeps the JFB thinking and dispersing troops to defend the north. You can build airbases which can handle B24 easily.

As the JFB, to stop the above. If you wanted you could continue onto Alaska, not sure why except in the case of total Allied collapse. Also your b) has merit, approaching the Allied LOC from the north.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
User avatar
crsutton
Posts: 9590
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:56 pm
Location: Maryland

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by crsutton »

B29s have a high service rating. I pretty much limit them to level 9 airfields and try to fly them only in decent weather.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg
jmalter
Posts: 1673
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:41 pm

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by jmalter »

hmm, I don't think oaltinyay's idea b) is much use, since there's really not going to be a lot of Allied shipping that can't be more easily targeted from bases in the Marshalls / Gilberts.

now, an IJ early-game move to seize Adak could pay off as a spoiling attack, to deny it to the Allies for as long as possible - but building it up is a bad idea, any base-capabilities the IJ adds will only benefit the Allies when they take it back! IJ engineering efforts in the north might better be restricted to fortifying the Kuriles.

It can be really difficult to build bases up in the Arctic. I've had 94 Engr points at Dutch Harbor since shortly after 7 Dec 41. 5-1/2 months later, its 0 airfield is only 84% towards level 1.
User avatar
Leandros
Posts: 1934
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:03 pm
Contact:

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by Leandros »

ORIGINAL: bartrat

Also on some of the islands the ground is "spongy"; it is marsh-like and very wet. Hard to build airfields on this type of ground.
Morrison gives a good description on these problems. Bombers bumping 30 feet up in the air when touching down.

Fred
River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
wdolson
Posts: 7648
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:56 pm
Location: Near Portland, OR

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by wdolson »

The Aleutians are the cauldron that generates most of the moisture that lands in North America west of the Rockies. The warm currents coming up from the equator collide with cold air and water coming down from the Arctic generating some of the worst weather on the planet. The game engine can't really reproduce just how awful a place it was to perform any kind of military operations.

My father was flying out of Attu in the last months of the war. The US had developed the ancestors of modern ground control operations just to be able to fly at all most days. Each plane had to be talked in by a ground controller closely watching a radar scope. Even then the accident rate was high. He said the entire time he was there they only took off once when it was clear enough to see past the engines. He learned they flew through a notch in the mountains immediately after take off and the sides of the mountain was littered with wrecks that didn't find the notch.

He loves airplanes, but won't fly in one again I think in large part because of his PTSD flying from there.

A couple of the Aleutian islands are large enough to accommodate B-24s, though there were never all that many bomber units in the theater. By the end of the war there were only 2 USAAF bomber squadrons in the entire theater, 1 B-25 and 1 B-24. The Aleutians are a subduction zone volcanic island chain (the Pacific Plate is being subducted just off the coast), this makes them young and very mountainous. Even if the weather could support large scale B-29 operations, the islands are too mountainous for basing many air units. There just isn't enough flat space (or space that can be made flat).

Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
Image
User avatar
crsutton
Posts: 9590
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:56 pm
Location: Maryland

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by crsutton »

In my past game I fought a major campaign in the winter of 42 and 43 to take back the Aleutians. It pretty much was a waste of time and resources. In this campaign, I am not really fighting for them nor is my opponent trying to take them other than one or two key bases for patrols. We both realized that it is not the path to victory for either side.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg
User avatar
Leandros
Posts: 1934
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:03 pm
Contact:

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by Leandros »

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The Aleutians are the cauldron that generates most of the moisture that lands in North America west of the Rockies. The warm currents coming up from the equator collide with cold air and water coming down from the Arctic generating some of the worst weather on the planet. The game engine can't really reproduce just how awful a place it was to perform any kind of military operations.

My father was flying out of Attu in the last months of the war. The US had developed the ancestors of modern ground control operations just to be able to fly at all most days. Each plane had to be talked in by a ground controller closely watching a radar scope. Even then the accident rate was high. He said the entire time he was there they only took off once when it was clear enough to see past the engines. He learned they flew through a notch in the mountains immediately after take off and the sides of the mountain was littered with wrecks that didn't find the notch.

He loves airplanes, but won't fly in one again I think in large part because of his PTSD flying from there.

A couple of the Aleutian islands are large enough to accommodate B-24s, though there were never all that many bomber units in the theater. By the end of the war there were only 2 USAAF bomber squadrons in the entire theater, 1 B-25 and 1 B-24. The Aleutians are a subduction zone volcanic island chain (the Pacific Plate is being subducted just off the coast), this makes them young and very mountainous. Even if the weather could support large scale B-29 operations, the islands are too mountainous for basing many air units. There just isn't enough flat space (or space that can be made flat).

Bill
Thank you for your interesting posting!

Fred
River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
User avatar
wneumann
Posts: 3768
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:47 am
Location: just beyond the outskirts of Margaritaville

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by wneumann »

Occupy, build up and expand at least the major bases in the Aleutians as the Allied player, regardless of whether or not you're actually planning to launch a campaign in the North Pacific. You may change your mind later about plans in the North Pacific. Plus there may actually be a use for a fully developed port or airfield in the Aleutians that you haven't planned for originally - in that case it's there and handy.
oaltinyay
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by oaltinyay »

ORIGINAL: jmalter

hmm, I don't think oaltinyay's idea b) is much use, since there's really not going to be a lot of Allied shipping that can't be more easily targeted from bases in the Marshalls / Gilberts.

now, an IJ early-game move to seize Adak could pay off as a spoiling attack, to deny it to the Allies for as long as possible - but building it up is a bad idea, any base-capabilities the IJ adds will only benefit the Allies when they take it back! IJ engineering efforts in the north might better be restricted to fortifying the Kuriles.

It can be really difficult to build bases up in the Arctic. I've had 94 Engr points at Dutch Harbor since shortly after 7 Dec 41. 5-1/2 months later, its 0 airfield is only 84% towards level 1.

Actually it is 43/3 and I have the entire CL and CA ( sans 2 old CA )complement for IJN. I can see a possibility of convoy raiding supported by KB and AOs...Allied player lost much of its CVEs so not much help from there...
User avatar
JeffroK
Posts: 6395
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by JeffroK »

Dont build an airbase on Dutch Harbour, just like IRL Unmak Island is a better option.

What does the JFB need to invest, a few Battalions to make a base and 1-2 AO's to refuel your Combat forces.

Having 2 approaches to the Allied LOC cant hurt, also provides an alternate line of retreat and makes the AFB think a little harder.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
oaltinyay
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by oaltinyay »

I am simulating an attack run by 2 CL and 2 CA's supported by a single A0 and some CVLS for aircover and slowingdown , 3 days later out of Umnak I am in the convoy route to PH, 5 days out I can cause mischief in the bay area.

Well worth invading the place , I am guessing.
User avatar
crsutton
Posts: 9590
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:56 pm
Location: Maryland

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by crsutton »

Once the LST arrives on the scene, the Allied player can easily move up the Aleutian chain by taking bases with level 0 ports but good airfields. This can be done in winter because there are too many for the Japanese to occupy. By the spring of 43 you should be in good position. The Japanese bases should be starving by then and easily invaded in mid 43. God bless the LST...
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg
User avatar
Barb
Posts: 2503
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:17 am
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by Barb »

Delaying position for the Japanese - you do not want the Allies to knock on your northern doors in 1942!
Image
oaltinyay
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Importance of Aleuts. for Japanese

Post by oaltinyay »

Hmmm... especially if he's deficient in carriers but long on 4E Bombers...
Post Reply

Return to “War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition”