A little preliminary prodding

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witpqs
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by witpqs »

ORIGINAL: Leandros

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

PBYs and B17 can easily transfer from Pearl to Christmas. Just be sure to upgrade Christmas to a level 4 airbase before sending B17s there.
It does say not within range. Which brings me back to my initial question - which mission type gives the best (ferry) range.....I do get to
Palmyra but not Christmas Island---
Type of mission set is 100% irrelevant when transferring a group (either to a base or a ship). The only thing that can affect that range is drop tanks enabled/disabled, provided that they are available to that aircraft at that date.

Most of the time when I transfer a group it is 'stood down', but the mission makes NO DIFFERENCE to the transfer range. Trust us!
jmalter
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by jmalter »

Sauvequipeut doesn't have it quite right - 'S true that B-17s need a (well-supplied) lvl-5 airbase to conduct offensive ops w/ a full bomb-load, but all you need to stage thru a base is lvl-1, a bit of supply, & enough Aviation Support to fix the damaged planes that are passing thru on their way to somewhere else.

Transfer of airgroups cannot be set to computer control, you must manually move them along every turn. It's possible to move B-17s from San Francisco to Manila, you must do so in stages, & you must travel between airbases of at least lvl-1, which must have some supply & enough Air Support to repair the damaged planes.

As you've learned, there's no specific 'ferry mission' available in the game. Any airgroup can be transferred to any allowable in-range base, regardless of its assigned Mission. I generally stand-down the group & set its alt to 5k' for a transfer mission, but that's no gaurantee that 1 or more airframes won't become an operations loss during the transfer.

It is possible to 'Sauve qui peut' the Dutch airgroups - you'll have noticed that most of them are unchangeable from their restricted KNIL command. But, you can use available naval transports to grab some of the small Dutch land units, tho' often you must spend PPs to change the land-unit's command to unrestricted 'ABDA' before you can load them to a naval transport. When these units are unloaded to a base (such as Port Hedland, Derby, Broome or Wyndham in North Oz), you'll then be able to spend PP to change that base from 'Australian Command [R]' to 'ABDA' - then you'll be able to fly range-capable KNIL [R]airgroups down to the ABDA base{s). It's possible to save most of the Dutch airgroups & a good portion of its base-force support, if you plan ahead from day 1 (Dec 7th).

But it costs PP (political points) that accrue very slowly, & the there are many other places where PP need to be spent. This is where your 'hat' as overall commander is important - where do you spend your PP?

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rustysi
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by rustysi »

Dude, you're killin' me.[:D] This is really a pretty simple operation.

1. Click on the icon of the air unit you wish to move.
2. Click on the 'transfer to base' button on the A/C's screen.
3. A list of all bases in range opens up. Pick one and done.

Your unit is now 'ferried' to where you want it. Nothing else (with the exception of drop tanks) matters. The games' complex enough, don't try to go looking under rocks and make it more so. Enjoy.[:'(]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
wdolson
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by wdolson »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

PBYs and B17 can easily transfer from Pearl to Christmas. Just be sure to upgrade Christmas to a level 4 airbase before sending B17s there.
ORIGINAL: Leandros
It does say not within range. Which brings me back to my initial question - which mission type gives the best (ferry) range.....I do get to
Palmyra but not Christmas Island---

The best thing for transferring units is to stand them down, they won't try to do anything else during the turn and can rest between turns. You transfer units during your orders phase by clicking the Transfer Unit to Base button and select the base to transfer them to.

You can set the units to some other mission and they will fly missions the turn they transfer, which is sort of double missions in a turn and is not completely realistic, but then it's often said the game is not perfect.

Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
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Leandros
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by Leandros »

Just a Little clarification: But, first, it may be that my download (as has been indicated here) is not entirely up-to-date, even if I just purchased it.

When checking the B-17E specs., and hex distances in the game, I get this:

PH-Palmyra 29 hexes
PH-Christmas Island 34

B-17E:
Max. range 61 hexes
Ext. radius 18
Normal radius: 15

The game accepts flying to Palmyra but not Christmas Island.

Fred

BTW: My 8 B-17E's have now left Johnston Island for Christmas Island.....[:)]...but Another party has arrived there....[&:] Don't worry, the following flights shall
proceed directly to Palmyra.





River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
Sauvequipeut
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by Sauvequipeut »

ORIGINAL: Leandros

Just a Little clarification: But, first, it may be that my download (as has been indicated here) is not entirely up-to-date, even if I just purchased it.

When checking the B-17E specs., and hex distances in the game, I get this:

PH-Palmyra 29 hexes
PH-Christmas Island 34

B-17E:
Max. range 61 hexes
Ext. radius 18
Normal radius: 15

The game accepts flying to Palmyra but not Christmas Island.

Fred

BTW: My 8 B-17E's have now left Johnston Island for Christmas Island.....[:)]...but Another party has arrived there....[&:] Don't worry, the following flights shall
proceed directly to Palmyra.






That's a bit of a puzzler...B-17's can get all the way to Pago-Pago if they wish. Christmas Island should be in your Tranfer list between Midway and Canton Islands. Unless Godzilla has stormed Christmas Island on 7th December you should be able to direct transfer there.

'Another party has arrived'...If you transfer an airgroup between bases that aren't linked by a railroad, then any damaged aircraft are left behind as a fragment. However, once the aircraft in the fragment are repaired, they will transfer during turn resolution and recombine with the parent unit if it is still at the destination. Personally, I tend to manually move fragments during the turn, so I'm a little fuzzy on exactly how the chasing system works, but that's my best guess as to what happened with 'another party' arriving.
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HansBolter
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by HansBolter »



Maximum Range is the range you can transfer a B17 to another base without having to ship it.

Maximum transfer range for the B17E is 61 hexes. As mentioned above they can actually fly from Pearl to Pago Pago.

I have found that very long range transfers often result in Ops loses so I typically go Pearl to Christmas and then on to Pago Pago.

I don't know what you are doing that is preventing you from transferring B17Es from Pearl to Christmas.
Hans

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Leandros
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by Leandros »

ORIGINAL: Sauvequipeut

That's a bit of a puzzler...B-17's can get all the way to Pago-Pago if they wish. Christmas Island should be in your Tranfer list between Midway and Canton Islands.
Unless Godzilla has stormed Christmas Island on 7th December you should be able to direct transfer there.

'Another party has arrived'...If you transfer an airgroup between bases that aren't linked by a railroad, then any damaged aircraft are left behind as a fragment.
However, once the aircraft in the fragment are repaired, they will transfer during turn resolution and recombine with the parent unit if it is still at the
destination. Personally, I tend to manually move fragments during the turn, so I'm a little fuzzy on exactly how the chasing system works, but that's my best
guess as to what happened with 'another party' arriving.
The other party was actually a follow-up unit. All the 8 first from Johnston arrived at Christmas in one piece after a couple of days delay. Acually, the one plane
that seemed to hold it up there had specified 1 day to repair.

The second group into Johnston had 3 out of 7 damaged.....[&:]

Fred
River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
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HansBolter
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: Leandros



The second group into Johnston had 3 out of 7 damaged.....[&:]


If Johnston is under level 4 than it is going to be tough to use it for 4E aircraft without taking Ops loses or heavy damage that requires maintenance.

As some one posted above you CAN use level 1 airfields for transfers, but it isn't advisable for heavy bombers that need a minimum level 4 to operate without increased damage and losses.

Essentially level 1 is little better than a grass strip like the second one set up at Guadalcanal for fighters. Not a good idea to try to operate heavy bombers from a field like that.
Hans

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Leandros
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by Leandros »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

If Johnston is under level 4 than it is going to be tough to use it for 4E aircraft without taking Ops loses or heavy damage that requires maintenance.

As some one posted above you CAN use level 1 airfields for transfers, but it isn't advisable for heavy bombers that need a minimum level 4 to operate without
increased damage and losses.

Essentially level 1 is little better than a grass strip like the second one set up at Guadalcanal for fighters. Not a good idea to try to operate heavy bombers
from a field like that.
Thank you, I understand as much now. If you have followed my postings you'll see it was all a question of range in the first place. My best choice now seems to
be Palmyra.

Anyway, I'm just "prodding" - it is not important.

Fred
River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
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rustysi
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by rustysi »

Acually, the one plane that seemed to hold it up there had specified 1 day to repair.

Keep in mind that this is only an 'estimate' of the repair time. Not much, or maybe nothing in this game is written in stone.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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rustysi
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by rustysi »

ORIGINAL: Leandros

Just a Little clarification: But, first, it may be that my download (as has been indicated here) is not entirely up-to-date, even if I just purchased it.

When checking the B-17E specs., and hex distances in the game, I get this:

PH-Palmyra 29 hexes
PH-Christmas Island 34

B-17E:
Max. range 61 hexes
Ext. radius 18
Normal radius: 15

The game accepts flying to Palmyra but not Christmas Island.

Fred

BTW: My 8 B-17E's have now left Johnston Island for Christmas Island.....[:)]...but Another party has arrived there....[&:] Don't worry, the following flights shall
proceed directly to Palmyra.

I don't know why you can't get to Christmas Island, I just tried it in my game (Dec 8th) and got there fine. I don't think 'patching up' should make a difference, unless there's no AB at Christmas to start with, but this doesn't seem to be the case as it is showing up as an option.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
alimentary
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by alimentary »

ORIGINAL: rustysi
I don't know why you can't get to Christmas Island, I just tried it in my game (Dec 8th) and got there fine. I don't think 'patching up' should make a difference, unless there's no AB at Christmas to start with, but this doesn't seem to be the case as it is showing up as an option.
Has always worked fine for me as well, going back any number of patch versions. My best [wild assed] guess is that it is a matter of exactly where in the target hex one is clicking. For instance, if on December 7, 1941 I try to transfer the B17E squadron from Pearl to Christmas Island and I click "select on map" and if I then click on the ground unit at Christmas Island, I get "unable to transfer due to no airfield" but if I click elsewhere in the hex, I can successfully transfer.

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zuluhour
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by zuluhour »

I believe the B17s at Pearl need to be bought out from Hawaii command.
alimentary
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by alimentary »

ORIGINAL: zuluhour
I believe the B17s at Pearl need to be bought out from Hawaii command.
In stock scenario 1 the B17-D's are under Hawaiian USAAF and the B17-E is under V US Bomber Cmnd. Neither HQ is restricted.
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Leandros
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by Leandros »

ORIGINAL: alimentary
ORIGINAL: zuluhour
I believe the B17s at Pearl need to be bought out from Hawaii command.
In stock scenario 1 the B17-D's are under Hawaiian USAAF and the B17-E is under V US Bomber Cmnd. Neither HQ is restricted.
I believe this transfer between commands has something to do with it. What I have found is that the planes (B-17E's) actually confirming they are leaving for, as
an example, Palmyra - returns to Pearl and are back there when the next turn starts. That may be because I use "supply transport". When I use other modes it
says it is outside range. I have switched them to USAFFE (this is in December '41). If I try to "transfer to new base" on the westerly side it doesn't accept
anything - even if it is "not restricted".

Funny enough, the PBY's have arrived in Pago Pago. Maybe because they are Navy...?

Apart from this it develops nicely. Picking ships and procedures for loading, etc. are rather complicated. Here there is also obviously some couplings between
units and ship's types. I'm looking forward to get the updated game and manual....

Tks for all your assistance.

Fred

P.S.: One definite disappointment. When the Pensacola convoy arrived in Brisbane (by the computer) exactly on time I found that it carried no troops or planes
(Maybe they pop up in Brisbane some days later...[:)]..?..) As you all may know in RL it carried a complete artillery brigade with lots of extras, 18 P-40's and 52
A-24's. They could have come to good use..[:)]



River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
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rustysi
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by rustysi »

The 'transfer to base' button is the way to move air units the quickest and the only way I go unless the range of the A/C is too short.
I'm looking forward to get the updated game and manual....

AFAIK the disk version is the same as the one you downloaded, its not an updated version. The way to 'update' your game is to download and install the latest patch.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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Leandros
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by Leandros »

ORIGINAL: rustysi

The 'transfer to base' button is the way to move air units the quickest and the only way I go unless the range of the A/C is too short.
That's what I thought, too, but the response is always: "Group cannot transfer to this unrestricted base..."...even if the range is not too short....which makes
me believe there are some discrepancies in HQ allocation as I move westwards. Just a feeling, but who am I to have any opinions on this - rookie me. It's not
important at this stage.

That said, my downloaded version seems to be lacking some buttons (there are open spaces) in the top menu line.
I'm looking forward to get the updated game and manual....
AFAIK the disk version is the same as the one you downloaded, its not an updated version. The way to 'update' your game is to download and install the latest patch.
Well, let me put it like this: I am looking forward to get the game (disk) in the mail so I can update it and it becomes an updated game..[;)]..

Fred
River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf
alimentary
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by alimentary »

ORIGINAL: Leandros
I believe this transfer between commands has something to do with it. What I have found is that the planes (B-17E's) actually confirming they are leaving for, as
an example, Palmyra - returns to Pearl and are back there when the next turn starts. That may be because I use "supply transport".
A "supply transport" mission tells the planes to load up with supplies (coffee, ammo, avgas, toilet paper, etc), drop it at the target location and return to home base. If you want to relocate the squadron, the mission selection is not the right way to do so. You must use the "transfer to base" button.
When I use other modes it says it is outside range.
That would presumably mean that you have chosen a different mission and used "select target". That is not how you transfer squadrons. Again, if you want to transfer the squadron, use the "transfer to base" button.
I have switched them to USAFFE (this is in December '41). If I try to "transfer to new base" on the westerly side it doesn't accept
anything - even if it is "not restricted".
*headbonk*. USAFFE is a restricted command. Hence the (R) after its name. By switching them to USAFFE, you have prevented yourself from being able to transfer them at all to any base not under USAFFE control.
P.S.: One definite disappointment. When the Pensacola convoy arrived in Brisbane (by the computer) exactly on time I found that it carried no troops or planes
(Maybe they pop up in Brisbane some days later...[:)]..?..) As you all may know in RL it carried a complete artillery brigade with lots of extras, 18 P-40's and 52
A-24's. They could have come to good use..[:)]
The in-game convoy contains the 114th and 115th base forces and three field artillery units. Those would automatically unload when the convoy arrives at its destination. You should look for them in Brisbane.

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rustysi
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RE: A little preliminary prodding

Post by rustysi »

but who am I to have any opinions on this - rookie me.

You may have any opinions on what ever you want, no matter what your experience. As always just trying to help here.
That said, my downloaded version seems to be lacking some buttons (there are open spaces) in the top menu line.

AFAIK there shouldn't be. Maybe something went wrong with the download?
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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