What Causes Units To Route?

[Mehring]

Rules state "A combat unit that is in Supply and forced to retreat will rout at the conclusion of combat if the final combat value odds ratio is greater than the morale of the unit. For example, at the conclusion of a battle, a unit with morale of forty will rout if the attacker's adjusted CV is greater than forty times the defender's adjusted CV. The exception is that if a unit has a valid hex to retreat to, then it will not be susceptible to a rout as long as it passes a check where the unit Morale is greater than or equal to 40+Die (15). This means that units with morale that is 55 or greater will never rout."

I'm presuming that all the above, as well as the provisions of v1.06.11 change regarding brigades and regiments are all predicated upon that final CV ratio > defender morale. But there are infinite examples of units with viable route paths that route at final CV odds that would suggest a non-credible defender morale.

The unit in the attached screenie was unequivocally in supply and had somewhere- actually a choice of two empty friendly contolled hexes, to retreat to. Further, it had just fended off two attacks, which I would expect to increase its morale, if anything. But it routed, and if I understand right that indicates a defender morale of < 3.86. My maths is not good and I've probably missed something really obvious. Anyone?

[morvael]

Do you have an image showning the map at the moment of combat?

[Mehring]

Just after, yes, but I don't particularly want Dave to see it. It's a server game and I'm moving now. You're welcome to take a look if there's a way.

[morvael]

Send the screen to my email?

[Mehring]

Sure , but it's hidden.

[morvael]

Sent via PM.

[Mehring]

got it, thanks

[morvael]

I don't think the rules coded in the game are following the manual. Perhaps they were changed at some point. Most important is the check morale<40+Die(15) and it is repeated in many places. I found odds used to determine shattering of units, where morale<Random(odds) is used, and to determine routing of reserve units, where Random(morale)<Random(odds*10) is used.

Expect units to rout if their morale is <55, otherwise do not expect that (unless they have no place to retreat).

[Mehring]

Thanks. I think it's always been like that but when you aren't looking to see how something works you accept that it does so as it's supposed to. Now understanding the meaning of "random (number)" after so many years, I had returned to the manual to figure out a way through checker boards, and clearly routing is the key.

[Mehring]

ORIGINAL: morvael

Most important is the check morale<40+Die(15) and it is repeated in many places. I found odds used to determine shattering of units, where morale<Random(odds) is used, and to determine routing of reserve units, where Random(morale)<Random(odds*10) is used.

So, just to be clear, a retreating unit instead routs when its morale is < 40+ random Die(15)?

If that's the case, with the current Russian early war morale, routs should be much more commonplace. Unless the random Die(15) is weighted to the lower numbers or the formula is in fact quite different, Russian routs might be at least as common as retreats, which in my experience, they are not. A retreating unit with 45 morale would have a 2/3 chance of routing instead, right?

[morvael]

But there are some other checks, I just listed those connected to morale and odds. I don't think I can really write it all down as is in the code here.

[Mehring]

So these other checks are "under the hood," or are they mentioned in the manual somewhere?

[morvael]

Under the hood. I understand this game is not written as a board game where you have rules in paper book which are then implemented as written. It's more like a complicated process is coded, using dozens of random rolls and then someone attempts to describe its general flow in the book. Some parts are more precise as the rules are simpler (like assignment AP cost), some are opaque and not described well (like combat).

[Mehring]

So my quest for an infallible rout attack must fail. Damn!

[morvael]

Yes, on the other hand I can't say I'm unhappy with that. If it would be possible to min-max every single detail of the game, it would be more like a wargame, less like war. Actually, there is still too much min-maxing possible rather than throwing the dice and hoping for the best. [:)]

[Mehring]

Agreed

[morvael]

The manual is halfway between the two worlds. It would be better if it would be less specific, just listing possible outcomes of combat and linking them with odds and morale and places to retreat, without citing parts of formulas, that can easily be made outdated, while leaving out the others.

[Denniss]

Maybe you can ask Pavel if this works as intended or if there were related changes in WitW.