Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

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MuguNiner
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Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by MuguNiner »

Greetings Zombie Fans!

I have just discovered that the BB Revenge needs to be withdrawn... I have 25 days to withdraw the ship. Should I just set sail and scuttle if the damage gets too great? Any suggestions or ideas appreciated.

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rms1pa
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by rms1pa »

time for the brave combat raid to singapore.

rms/pa
there is a technical term for those who confuse the opinions of an author's characters for the opinions of the author.
the term is IDIOT.
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Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

Ten-gô Sakusen

I heard BBs are great at cleaning minefields
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Chickenboy
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by Chickenboy »

Do you think the RN high command would have scuttled the ship or sent it on an ill-advised suicide mission rather than try to repair it for the journey? Why would you do that? To avoid the VP 'cost' by keeping it in theater for repairs?

I view this as the game's way of telling you that you 'messed up' with putting these soon-to-be-withdrawn ships in harms way. Unless the cause of damage was a submarine intercept near a backwater port, you likely engaged this ship too far forward and didn't account for the need to withdraw it soon. Now the game is telling you that there is a cost for that mindset and failure to account for the imminent withdrawal.

It's akin to keeping an air unit in beyond its withdrawal date and 'eating' the VP cost. You could do so, but most players don't find that a worthwhile 'tax' on VPs. Now that you have damaged goods, I say 'pay up' until you can send it back somewhat repaired. Realism, IMO, requires that approach.
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witpqs
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by witpqs »

AFAIK it is below the level of damage that stops a withdrawal. Just get it to some place where it can withdraw.
Malagant
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by Malagant »

Set sail!
"La Garde meurt, elle ne se rend pas!"
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Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

Issue is it will grab "political points"; not "victory points"

according to the manual: "The scheduled withdrawal date for each ship is listed, along with the ship name and type and the ship’s current location, and the daily cost, in Political Points, for failure to withdraw the ship"

In a PBEM game it is a big handicap, IMHO, to keep it afloat consuming PP for many, many days.

In other words, I would prefer to pay the mistake in VP once when it sinks rather than in PP for many days
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Chickenboy
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Issue is it will grab "political points"; not "victory points"

according to the manual: "The scheduled withdrawal date for each ship is listed, along with the ship name and type and the ship’s current location, and the daily cost, in Political Points, for failure to withdraw the ship"

In a PBEM game it is a big handicap, IMHO, to keep it afloat consuming PP for many, many days.

In other words, I would prefer to pay the mistake in VP once when it sinks rather than in PP for many days

You're right-and thank you for the correction regarding political v. victory points.

All the more reason to ensure that your ships scheduled for withdrawal don't fall into harm's way, IMO. Still, the solution of scuttling a salvageable ship in a time of war just because your headquarters abroad is screaming at you every day doesn't sit with the 'realism' side of me. YMMV, of course.
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Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

Well, I would like to have the option of issuing the order: "destroyer ABC, please put a couple torpedoes on BB XYZ" as it was the case historically. I know we can "scuttle" but only when heavy damaged,

There were cases IRL of ships that although perfectly seaworthy, were dead at sea, and these were torpedoed to avoid capture. A battleship, even a hulk, has a strong value propaganda value if captured
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: witpqs

AFAIK it is below the level of damage that stops a withdrawal. Just get it to some place where it can withdraw.

Agreed, set sail for Colombo now. You might make it in 25 days. If after say 15-18 days you have gaged progress toward Colombo and determine it won't make it, increase to maximum speed so it may sink form accumulated damage before you start getting the PP hit.

That way at least you are taking a shot at not having to incur a hit on either PPs or VPs but are still hedging your bet.
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by Spidery »

Also suggest you turn off Upgrade. You don't want to arrive at Columbo and find it enters upgrade!
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Chickenboy
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
ORIGINAL: witpqs

AFAIK it is below the level of damage that stops a withdrawal. Just get it to some place where it can withdraw.

Agreed, set sail for Colombo now. You might make it in 25 days. If after say 15-18 days you have gaged progress toward Colombo and determine it won't make it, increase to maximum speed so it may sink form accumulated damage before you start getting the PP hit.

That way at least you are taking a shot at not having to incur a hit on either PPs or VPs but are still hedging your bet.

That's fair enough.
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Sauvequipeut
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by Sauvequipeut »

If it salves your conscience any, Revenge was deemed unfit for combat duties after her return from the Far East. Within a year she had embarked on a new career as a disarmed training hulk.

IRL, if facing your situation, the decision would probably have been taken to run her aground as a harbour defence and anti-aircraft battery. Unfortunately, that's not a game option.
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MuguNiner
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by MuguNiner »

Also suggest you turn off Upgrade. You don't want to arrive at Columbo and find it enters upgrade!

Thanks, hadn't thought of that, among all the other things I hadn't thought of... Has anyone mastered this thing yet? Developers need not reply.
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: witpqs

AFAIK it is below the level of damage that stops a withdrawal. Just get it to some place where it can withdraw.

She has to go off-map. Aden would work. Major Float damage here prevents on-map withdrawal.

48. Gameplay Change: Allow ship withdrawals at any on map level-9 port and some smaller ports with no enemy nearby. Ships can always be withdrawn from any off- map port or from any TF that is currently off map. Ships that are not badly damaged can be withdrawn from some on-map ports or from TFs in certain on-map regions. For on map, ship may not be on fire, total damage may not exceed 99 and no individual damage type (system, floatation, engine) may exceed 50. Ships may not be withdrawn from any on-map location where the enemy has air superiority. The
intent is to prevent withdrawal as a method of saving a ship that stands a good chance of being lost or further damaged. On map withdrawal ports are set based on the historical exit locations for ships leaving the Pacific:
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witpqs
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by witpqs »

This here is probably the way to go, then (boldface in red).
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: witpqs

AFAIK it is below the level of damage that stops a withdrawal. Just get it to some place where it can withdraw.

She has to go off-map. Aden would work. Major Float damage here prevents on-map withdrawal.

48. Gameplay Change: Allow ship withdrawals at any on map level-9 port and some smaller ports with no enemy nearby. Ships can always be withdrawn from any off- map port or from any TF that is currently off map. Ships that are not badly damaged can be withdrawn from some on-map ports or from TFs in certain on-map regions. For on map, ship may not be on fire, total damage may not exceed 99 and no individual damage type (system, floatation, engine) may exceed 50. Ships may not be withdrawn from any on-map location where the enemy has air superiority. The
intent is to prevent withdrawal as a method of saving a ship that stands a good chance of being lost or further damaged. On map withdrawal ports are set based on the historical exit locations for ships leaving the Pacific:
jwolf
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by jwolf »

Witpqs: does "off map" include the holding boxes en route to Aden, Capetown, etc?
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witpqs
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by witpqs »

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Witpqs: does "off map" include the holding boxes en route to Aden, Capetown, etc?
That's how I am interpreting it. The way to know is to call up the ship (TF display, click on the ship) and see if the 'Withdraw' button is active.

If you head for Aden and you are using the extended map, you might not be able to click on the TF. If not, just use the alternate method: the 't' hotkey opens up a list of task forces, then notice somewhere on there is a button that toggles the list between on-map and off-map TFs. Once you get the off-map list then just find the correct TF.
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RE: Should I Stay or Should I Go? If I stay there will be trouble, If I go there will be Double...

Post by zuluhour »

As my grandfather was fond of saying, "yes, your right, your wrong again". [:'(]
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