which scenario has the best ai?

[quertice]

for the best no pbem witp experience, one for jap side and one for ally side.

one of these?

Grand Campaign Scenarios
Ironman Japan - by Andy Mac - Added 24 Apr 12
tm.asp?m=2920177
Ironman nasty - Andy Mac - Added 11 Jan 13
tm.asp?m=3240065
or
tm.asp?m=3352052
Ironman Allied - by Andy Mac - Added 24 Apr 12
tm.asp?m=3076885
or
tm.asp?m=2920168

Patch 07 unofficial data scen updates - Andy Mac - Added 21 Oct 12
tm.asp?m=3198064

(taken from this thread www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3088504 )


I've always playied grand campaigns in pbem, but now I have no time often enough to start a new pbem, so I'm looking for a versus ai match, just in relax.

I'm expert for ally side, little experience for jap.
wanting to play with historic difficult level, I don't like unrealitic bonuses.

thanks in advance.

[Lokasenna]

Yes, I would do one of the Ironman scenarios. The regular Ironman scenarios would be fine. If you're a masochist, then go for the Ironman Nasty versions...

[quertice]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Yes, I would do one of the Ironman scenarios. The regular Ironman scenarios would be fine. If you're a masochist, then go for the Ironman Nasty versions...

I was looking for DaIronBabes version C ( https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswi ... aironbabes ), I really like dababes mod, but now I see it's not really an "iron" scenario, it's just the Hakku Ichiu (converted to dababes), harder than historic, but not as an ironman scenario, so would it be too easy for me? I play pbem as ally from years

[Yaab]

If you play the Allies, maybe you could try to use house rules to prop up the AI, like no fuel shipped in xAKs; amphib invasions only with AP/AK/APA ships; cruise speed for off-map movement etc.?

[Symon]

ORIGINAL: qwetry

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Yes, I would do one of the Ironman scenarios. The regular Ironman scenarios would be fine. If you're a masochist, then go for the Ironman Nasty versions...

I was looking for DaIronBabes version C ( https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswi ... aironbabes ), I really like dababes mod, but now I see it's not really an "iron" scenario, it's just the Hakku Ichiu (converted to dababes), harder than historic, but not as an ironman scenario, so would it be too easy for me? I play pbem as ally from years

Every AI file is simply a script. If A, then B, and then C, and so on. If you do X, then the script don't care and continues to item C regardless. It is a stepwise script. Even the hardest ones just throw curve balls from out of the box places. They do A, B, K, L, M, and so on. And if you do X, then the script don't care and continues to item L regardless.

The AI ain't intelligent. It can only do what the script file says to do. Once you play it, it's done. It will repeat itself forever and you will forever win. That's why there's up to 10 AI scripts for every scenario. Each one has a teensy tweak from the base file. Just enough to make you cough. But not really enough to really make you pay attention.

Forget about finding a "hard" AI file. Just listen to the long term players that have simple rules about how to give the AI its head before you chop it off. Playing "smart" is way more fun than playing "hard".

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: qwetry

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Yes, I would do one of the Ironman scenarios. The regular Ironman scenarios would be fine. If you're a masochist, then go for the Ironman Nasty versions...

I was looking for DaIronBabes version C ( https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswi ... aironbabes ), I really like dababes mod, but now I see it's not really an "iron" scenario, it's just the Hakku Ichiu (converted to dababes), harder than historic, but not as an ironman scenario, so would it be too easy for me? I play pbem as ally from years

Every AI file is simply a script. If A, then B, and then C, and so on. If you do X, then the script don't care and continues to item C regardless. It is a stepwise script. Even the hardest ones just throw curve balls from out of the box places. They do A, B, K, L, M, and so on. And if you do X, then the script don't care and continues to item L regardless.

The AI ain't intelligent. It can only do what the script file says to do. Once you play it, it's done. It will repeat itself forever and you will forever win. That's why there's up to 10 AI scripts for every scenario. Each one has a teensy tweak from the base file. Just enough to make you cough. But not really enough to really make you pay attention.

Forget about finding a "hard" AI file. Just listen to the long term players that have simple rules about how to give the AI its head before you chop it off. Playing "smart" is way more fun than playing "hard".

Agree.

Playing the Ironman scenarios makes this a bit easier, as you don't have to babysit it as much because Andy tossed in just so many extra evil goodies for your computer opponent... You will still likely reach the autovictory conditions, but the I think the intent is that you enjoy getting there a lot more.

[Anthropoid]

+1 to the two previous posts. I satisfied myself playing only he AI in WiTP and WPO for a long time; probably too long. Having just got going with a PBEM (and lots of past PBEMs in other games) you just cannot beat a human opponent. AI is great to learn complex games, and build up intuition and confidence, but even if you almost completely botch everything for the first month (as allies against AI Japan) and even on hardest possible settings, I'm betting that even an 'average' player who sticks with it and learns from his/her mistakes will beat the AI hands down.

Which is in NO way an indictment of "the AI in AE." Apart from Chess and a few other very 'simple' games, else games where the design makes the AI competitive by virtue of things like timing, speed and precision, there just simply is no such thing as a truly capable game AI in existence, particularly not for complex games like AE.

An example of how different the AI vs a human play in one case is perhaps instructive for those who remain skeptical.

In my PBEM, I was attentive that I did everything I possibly could on turn one, I wanted to leave NOTHING sitting that I didn't intend to. By Dec 9, I had all the ships from Hong Kong dispersing (empty) to the south. I tried to use a variety of TF, some small others large, to decoy my opponent away from the bigger more valuable packages of ships. Net result: all three destroyers, most of the AKs, most of th xAKLs sunk by Dec 9. He caught me and sank me in droves.

Compare with a "versus AI" game I have going to keep me entertained when I'm waiting for turns. After historic start, on Dec 8 I only really changed orders in a few locations: Luzon and Malaya mainly and just left everything as is.

Next thing the AI does is send an amphibious TF to land at Hong Kong, probably 15 or 20 LBs and 4 or 5 MB-something boats. Net result, the three british DDs in the TF that is in Hong Kong at game start massacred them!

I had no expectation this would happen and a human player who knew enough to recon and act accordingly would proabbly never have made such a mistake. As it is, Hong Kong may never fall now, or not fall for a very long time.

[John 3rd]

My Design Team's Mods are not very AI friendly! We've had people play Treaty, Reluctant Admiral, and Between the Storms while using the AI but I do not recommend it. Most Mods--in my opinion--are that way.

Why not jump in with a suitable opponent and let it rock-n-roll??!!

[drw61]

Here is the link to the- Ironman scenario 10 to DaBigBabes conversion.
I have not looked at it in a long time, the AI is the same as the scenario 10 AI.

tm.asp?m=3062873

ORIGINAL: qwetry

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Yes, I would do one of the Ironman scenarios. The regular Ironman scenarios would be fine. If you're a masochist, then go for the Ironman Nasty versions...

I was looking for DaIronBabes version C ( https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswi ... aironbabes ), I really like dababes mod, but now I see it's not really an "iron" scenario, it's just the Hakku Ichiu (converted to dababes), harder than historic, but not as an ironman scenario, so would it be too easy for me? I play pbem as ally from years

[wdolson]

The AI is scripted, but the scripts are adaptive to what is available. For example, there may be a script to take Suva that calls out X AV and Y naval assets. I believe it calls out units to try and use, but if they aren't available, it will try to substitute suitable units.

I have copied AI scripts from the stock scenarios and used them in mods. They work OK. The extra goodies provided in the mod will be used by the AI. I haven't noticed any huge problems. Aggressive play will break the AI in just about any scenario. The Ironman Nasty scenario makes the opponent tough enough that it takes more effort to break it, but a decent player playing aggressive probably will break it eventually.

I could see some problems if someone moves around a lot of the LCU slots. If the AI script says to try and use the xyz division in slot 1234 and there is now a base unit in that slot, the AI might try and conduct an invasion with a base unit instead of a division.

(I had nothing to do with the writing of the AI scripts nor did I touch any of the AI code. My hand waving about how the AI works is more educated guess than actual knowledge of how the code works. Just my caveat here.)

From personal experience the AI scripts work acceptably well with mods. Any problems they do have are not fatal. I have never had a game crash because I was using a different scenario's AI files. Something bad may happen if you tried to use the AI scripts from something like the Coral Sea scenario in a Grand Campaign mod.

To use AI files from another scenario, make a copy of the AI files from that scenario and rename them to the same slot as the scenario you want to play.

Bill

[quertice]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd



Why not jump in with a suitable opponent and let it rock-n-roll??!!

because I have no time enough to take on a long time responsibility like a pbem [:(]


thanks all for info

at the moment I think to begin:

as ally side: the ironman nasty, this tm.asp?m=3623656&mpage=1&key=� , it isn't dababes like I would like, but it's harder than ironman converted to dababes.

as jap: not the ironman nasty, too hard for me as jap, so I'm towards easier ironman, this I've found tm.asp?m=3076885 , otherwise the babeslite, it's not hard, not ironman, but I'm not expert at all as jap, so I may (hope) don't feel it too easy, and it's a dababes scenario, more realistic playing like I preffer.

[NigelKentarus]

May be a little OT, but I've started a new game (DBB-Scen028)as Allies against the AI. As many times that I have started a new game, I've never seen this script. The KB has bombed PH for 3 days now and hasn't moved. On the 7th, sank the Oklahoma and a few other minor ships, most BB's with 75-90 flot damage. Nothing much changed on the 8th, but the attacked again on the 9th and sank the West Virginia and a few other ships. My question is, has anyone else had KB attack PH for 3 days or is this a bad install (changed computers)? On the bright side, at least I know where KB is.

[Yaab]

Two restarts ago I had the same KB script in scen 28. The KB sat around Pearl for 3-4 days, then went west and reappeared off Balikpapan in late December 1941. The initial script is annoying because it keeps PH under lock-down, plus the KB loses too many pilots from its initial, elite batch of aviators.