Some first-real-playthrough questions

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Fishbreath
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Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Fishbreath »

Surprising though it may be, given that I mirror a bunch of Pacific War resources, I've never actually played a game all the way through, or even past the first few turns. As I do so, I have a few questions about unit pools, air orders, and task force types.

1. Can aircraft in the pool be turned into units? If not, what happens if I load an air group onto ships, then replenish a large carrier force such that there are no planes left in the air group I loaded? Is it gone forever? Does it come back as a reinforcement sometime later?

2. Can ships in the pool be turned into ship units? If I put some DDs into the pool, is there any way to get them out besides pulling them into an on-map unit of the same kind of DDs? If I have DDs in the pool and run out of the same kind of ship on map, are those DDs in the pool stuck there forever?

3. Same questions for submarines—can subs in the pool be removed into groups?

4. Do air groups only intercept over their home base? Is there any effect to setting a base's air target to its own base, or to another friendly base?

5. How do evacuation TFs work? Do you form them at a remote base and send them to the base to be evacuated?

6. Are there any shortcuts for getting escorts with the GET TRANSPORT HQ option, or do you just have to either get the transports at a base with escorts, or move escorts to the base with transports?
Istfemer
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Istfemer »

1. No. Aircraft in the pool cannot be used to form new air groups.
If not, what happens if I load an air group onto ships, then replenish a large carrier force such that there are no planes left in the air group I loaded? Is it gone forever? Does it come back as a reinforcement sometime later?
I think the number of aircraft in the air group you loaded simply drops to 0. This air group will then take a significant experience hit as it receives replacements.

2. No. Ships in the pool cannot be used to form new flotillas.
(MCS ships called via Get Transport are an exception, though technically speaking these aren't new flotillas)
If I have DDs in the pool and run out of the same kind of ship on map, are those DDs in the pool stuck there forever?
Pretty much. I'm not sure whether these are used in Routine Convoys or not.

3. No again. Free submarines aren't displayed in the ship pool for whatever reason. You have to manually check your sub groups in ports.
I think (but I'm not sure) that when you have free subs in the ship pool reinforcements happen automatically, i.e with sub groups already on station.


By the way, submarines aren't the only ones that get to be invisible in the ship pool. Other ships may become not visible there too!
This happened to my British Empress AP unit during our game with Zeke.
bradk
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by bradk »

If not, what happens if I load an air group onto ships, then replenish a large carrier force such that there are no planes left in the air group I loaded? Is it gone forever? Does it come back as a reinforcement sometime later?


I don't know how you can load an existing airgroup on a replenishment TF. When you form a replenishment TF with a CVE you should use only CVEs that don't have airgroups. If you use one with an airgroup, that airgroup really isn't on the CVE anymore. But when the CVE is unloaded, the airgroup comes back as all newbies.

What happens when a replenishment TF with a CVE is formed it takes supply points from the base. If there are enough supply points at the base, then you get a full load of aircraft, types not specified. There is no reduction in pool aircraft at this point. Note it takes a lot of supply points to load CVEs with replacement aircraft. The supply cost is the same as the shipping cost for loading aircraft on MCS, 20 per fighter, etc.

When replenishment of an air combat TF is done, the aircraft on the replenishment TF just happens to match what the air combat TF needs (isn't this wonderful logisitics!).

I remember testing this once... I think when replenishment is done then the aircraft needed come out of the pool. I'm not 100% sure on that but believe that's how the test came out, that is, no free aircraft.



Do air groups only intercept over their home base? Is there any effect to setting a base's air target to its own base, or to another friendly base?

I don't remember for sure but I think you get four aircraft per airgroup over an adjoining base if within range.



5. How do evacuation TFs work? Do you form them at a remote base and send them to the base to be evacuated?


Tricky stuff!

Form them at a base other than the one to be evacuated. The evacuation TF will evacuate the LCU with the LOWEST readiness.

You must size the evacuation TF for the LCU to be evacuated or else not all of the LCU will be evacuated and I THINK when it takes part of an LCU it LEAVES the main unit.

You must have one evacuation TF per LCU. If you have two LCUs at the base totalling 950 shipping points and you send an evacuation TF with 1000 shipping points you will only evacuate one LCU, the one with the lowest readiness.

Assuming no evacuation TFs abort, the lowest numbered TF will arrive first and evacuate the LCU with the lowest readiness. So you need to size the TFs based on their TF number and the LCU you expect them to evacuate.

If there's a land battle before the evacuation TFs arrive at the base, the readiness of the LCUs could change and totally mess up your plans.

Evacuation LCUs might get some kind of partial immunity from attack. I don't know for sure. The few times I've done it I've supported the evacuations with air combat and surface combat TFs which could have prevented attacks on the evacuation TFs.

After 20 plus years the game still has unsolved mysteries!


6. Are there any shortcuts for getting escorts with the GET TRANSPORT HQ option, or do you just have to either get the transports at a base with escorts, or move escorts to the base with transports?


"Get Transport" only gets you MCSs based on port size and AP type ships for the activated LCUs, both subject to availability.
Fishbreath
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Fishbreath »

Aha, I misunderstood how replenishment TFs worked. Thanks for the answers—that clears several things up for me. I'm hoping to get a full play through the war in over the summer, so I can write a real-time weekly AAR starting in December. If you get a newer version of your scenarios finished, I think I might give it a go with one of those.
bradk
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by bradk »

If you get a newer version of your scenarios finished, I think I might give it a go with one of those.

Human/AI can be done on them but the other side won't run completely on automatic.

Set up as a human/human game, place all HQs for the opponent on computer control, and set aircraft upgrades to manual. Alt-N does this.

You will need to upgrade airgroups and change factories for the other side.

Check the Alt-N setting occasionally. It appears to sometimes get lost when the game is saved.

Losing the Alt-N setting results in a mess for the Allies recoverable only by going back to a saved turn before the problem. For IJ is mostly correctable within the game but causes aircraft shortages.

Have fun!
Fishbreath
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Fishbreath »

Okay, two more:

1. Looking through battle reports, I see a lot of things listed as the Allies (me) defending with two squads, despite having way more than two squads on hand—full brigade or division LCUs, in most cases. This has been happening in the DEI and India. I have a big concentration of forces at Clark Field, which hasn't been attacked yet. Do they have to be activated to fight at full strength? Am I missing something else?

2. How smart is ship pathing with respect to enemy contact? If the enemy has an AZOC over the Flores Sea such that I can't transit from Surabaya to Darwin by going east without entering the AZOC, will the game divert the ship west from Surabaya and around the south side of Java?
Istfemer
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Istfemer »

1. Ah, the dreaded 2-squad defense. Many Allied Indian and DEI LCUs have abysmal starting experience (10 to 25 EXP) and many of them are understrength. The latter are (automatically) taking replacements and this makes their experience to go down even more.

Such low experience forces these units to fail EXP checks very often. Their readiness gets reduced to either 25% or worse -- to 1.
This can be countered to some degree by putting good leaders (7-9 land rating) in charge of the bases these units fight at and in charge of HQs these fight under. However, Allies have few good land leaders in 1941 and early 1942. And even with good leaders in charge LCUs with EXP <30 get defeated regularly.

IMO it is a good idea to quickly evacuate Dutch LCUs to India, Australia or southern New Guinea.
Indian LCUs in Singapore are the best Indian units you have at the moment (EXP 40). I usually evacuate a few to Rangoon to defend Burma against inevitable Japanese advance. Stopping Japanese at Rangoon, Mandalay (and Akyab if you have it in your scenario) is very difficult still.
Singapore shouldn't be lost too early though -- leave a decent garrison there under air cover.

In 1941 I evacuate 8th Aus Div and Malay brigades from Singapore to Rangoon ASAP.
I evacuate American (dark green) Philippine Div and 4th Marine Rgt from Philippines ASAP too. Where to - depends whether it is an AI or PBEM game.
1st Prov Rgt is too big to be evacuated but it's still possible to get it to safety. IIRC, it is a regular regiment with tanks attached to it -- tanks never replenish. If you manage to get it out with many tanks still intact, send it to Burma and put it in a non-coastal terrain 9 base with a good leader. It's a great defensive unit when used this way.
(yellow) Philippine Divs are not worth evacuating -- too dangerous when playing against a human. When playing against AI it may be possible if AI is slow to advance.

Activating units at Clark Field will not improve their defensive capability but will make them consume more supplies instead.
Which is a bad idea, as Clark Field is going to become isolated and then out of supply relatively soon regardless of friendly air cover. (it usually does in my AI games)


The top LCU at a base is the most important one -- so players say. It should have the highest experience.
bradk
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by bradk »

2. How smart is ship pathing with respect to enemy contact? If the enemy has an AZOC over the Flores Sea such that I can't transit from Surabaya to Darwin by going east without entering the AZOC, will the game divert the ship west from Surabaya and around the south side of Java?

Cargo TFs try to avoid AZOCs. Anything else will enter them unless very short on prep points.

If you're trying to do something like get Allied cruisers out of DEI you could form them into a cargo TF so they'll avoid AZOCs if possible. However the TF will be at a severe disadvantage if it encounters and IJN surface combat TF because it won't have many prep points.

Major rerouting by any TF is unlikely. Mostly what you'll see is TF avoiding a straight line route, not heading a completelly opposite direction to avoid an AZOC.
Fishbreath
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Fishbreath »

Another few about air power, while I'm thinking about it at work:

1. Is friendly land-based air cover simulated? If a TF is moving under a friendly fighter or ACTF AZOC, does that prevent the enemy from making reaction bomber strikes against the friendly TF?

2. Do air combat TFs fully cancel out enemy AZOCs they enter, or do they just cancel enemy AZOCs in the hexes their AZOC occupies?
bradk
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by bradk »

1. Is friendly land-based air cover simulated? If a TF is moving under a friendly fighter or ACTF AZOC, does that prevent the enemy from making reaction bomber strikes against the friendly TF?

As with much of PW, an answer with a lot of ifs.

A fighter AZOC reduces enemy search capability. A TF can't be attacked until its located.

A TF can be attacked in each hex where its spotted. So a fighter AZOC can reduce the number of attacks because it prevents detection in some of the hexes.

The probability of having zero attacks is low because even if not spotted prior a TF tends to have spotted status after it attacks something.


2. Do air combat TFs fully cancel out enemy AZOCs they enter, or do they just cancel enemy AZOCs in the hexes their AZOC occupies?

Well, since the AZOCs can't be seen during the combat phase, who really knows what's happening?

The manual says a fighter AZOC extends three hexes, I think it is. If it didn't extend three hexes, then I'd say it wouldn't be possible to land LCUs from a transport TF covered by an air combat TF with a standoff of two.

AZOC is clearly a yes/no situation during the routine convoy phase. A base either qualfies for deliver of supplies or not, no in between.

I realize the manual uses the word "cancel" but I think this is a misstatement. If it was truly cancelled then there would be an expectation a TF could approach a base without being attacked. Yet we see situations where an air combat TF gets the first strike on a land base, sometimes gets a "surprise" first strike, sometimes a couple of strikes before there's a return strike, and sometimes gets attacked before it can strike the base.

One of the great features of Grigsby games is the randomness of outcomes within a large but reasonable range. But this makes it more difficult to determine how the game works through observing the results.
Fishbreath
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Fishbreath »

Another one:

The Matrix release notes say that the icon with soldiers on a background means that a base is contested. Does that mean that there are LCUs from the Japanese and the Allied side at the base at the same time? If so, is there any way to see what force the enemy has? Combat isn't being triggered at the base, either. If you've marched into an enemy base but combat is not resolved one way or another, do you have to activate your troops on subsequent turns for them to continue the attack?

Again, thanks so much for the answers here, guys. I'm planning on compiling all of them into a little FAQ (i.e. Fishbreath-asked questions) to put up with the rest of the stuff on my website, and you're definitely getting a ton of credit for it.
Istfemer
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Istfemer »

The Matrix release notes say that the icon with soldiers on a background means that a base is contested. Does that mean that there are LCUs from the Japanese and the Allied side at the base at the same time? If so, is there any way to see what force the enemy has?
Soldier icons are displayed even when contested base doesn't have any garrison stationed. Note: Bases under Allied Eastern Fleet HQ will always show a soldier icon -- probably a bug in the game. At the game start Colombo doesn't show the soldier icon but if you press Change Base button and change Colombo to its own Eastern Fleet HQ, it will.

Allied SIGINT can reveal approximate strength of 1 enemy LCU per SIGINT point. Several SIGINT points have to be spent to check if enemy has several LCUs at a given base and SIGINT can show you the same enemy LCU a few times in a row.
Combat isn't being triggered at the base, either. If you've marched into an enemy base but combat is not resolved one way or another, do you have to activate your troops on subsequent turns for them to continue the attack?
Yes. LCUs go inactive at the end of every turn and must be activated to fight. (Exception - Allied 1st Mar Div. Once activated it will stay that way until you manually deactivate it. However, a recent test I did showed that this isn't always the case.)
Fishbreath
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Fishbreath »

Two more about replenishment TFs: do they only work for targets at a base? Is there any way to replenish a TF at sea, or do you have to put in somewhere? Do carriers receive replacement aircraft while in port, or only through replenishment TFs?
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Capt. Harlock
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Capt. Harlock »

1. Ah, the dreaded 2-squad defense. Many Allied Indian and DEI LCUs have abysmal starting experience (10 to 25 EXP) and many of them are understrength. The latter are (automatically) taking replacements and this makes their experience to go down even more.

Such low experience forces these units to fail EXP checks very often. Their readiness gets reduced to either 25% or worse -- to 1.
This can be countered to some degree by putting good leaders (7-9 land rating) in charge of the bases these units fight at and in charge of HQs these fight under. However, Allies have few good land leaders in 1941 and early 1942. And even with good leaders in charge LCUs with EXP <30 get defeated regularly.

In my experience, LCU's with experience ratings below 20 are worse than useless. For all practical purposes, they exist to turn Allied supply points into Japanese victory points. Indian and Dutch units who get their exp ratings down to this point can recover, but it's slow. Chinese units so hammered are basically out of the game: they do not train.
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Capt. Harlock
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Capt. Harlock »

Two more about replenishment TFs: do they only work for targets at a base? Is there any way to replenish a TF at sea, or do you have to put in somewhere? Do carriers receive replacement aircraft while in port, or only through replenishment TFs?

TF's can be replenished at sea -- *if* there is a Replenishment TF within reasonable distance. If a TF is within a few hexes of a port, you can create a Replenishment TF at that port, then go to the thirsty TF, issue the "replenish" command, and the Replenishment TF will immediately move to the receiving TF and refuel it without having to wait for the movement phase. It can come in handy, so much so that it's occasionally wise to create a Replenishment TF a turn before it's needed, then sail it to the approximate area.

Carriers can receive replacement aircraft in port or from Replenishment TF's. However, the Replenishment TF must also transfer fuel, so be sure to include a TK or AO along with the aviation ship.
Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

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bradk
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by bradk »

ORIGINAL: Fishbreath

Two more about replenishment TFs: do they only work for targets at a base? Is there any way to replenish a TF at sea, or do you have to put in somewhere? Do carriers receive replacement aircraft while in port, or only through replenishment TFs?


Replenishment TFs are for TFs at sea. At a base a TF will take aircraft and fuel from the base. Assuming there's enough there.

To replenish an air combat TF at sea select the Replensh command while the TF is highlighted. The replenish TF will move to the location of the air combat TF if it is within range and replenish it. Within range... here's that can of worms.

The maximum number of hexes a TF can move in a turn is the speed rating of the slowest ship in the TF. The slowest ship in a replenish TF is slower than the slowest ship in an air combat TF, so depending on the distance to the target base the air combat TF might travel farther than the replenish TF can travel.

The solution to this is to start the replenish TF the turn before sending the air combat TF to the target. Set its target for the target base with a large standoff (perhaps 8) and the remain on station command.

Some quirks

Two replenish TFs in an area don't work. Only one will be used.

After a replenish TF returns to base, disband it and make a new one. An old one will not work if sent out again after returning to base.

I can't quite remember the details but there's something about when air combat TFs are involved, no fuel is transferred unless aircraft are first transferred. So if the replenish TF runs out of replacement aircraft, a TF will get no fuel. (Some of the details on this may be wrong.)

Concerning the other question, carriers receive replacement aircraft in port if the port has enough supply points and there are aircraft of the right type in the pool. Same thing with fuel. There has be be enough fuel at the base to supply the ships.
Fishbreath
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Fishbreath »

Here's another one: a Philippine unit called Guerrilla Army just arrived in the Eastern US base. Can it be moved somehow?
Istfemer
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Istfemer »

Simply leave it where it is. It doesn't have to be moved anywhere.
Philippine Guerrilla Army will materialize at one of the Philippine bases in 1945 to aid you in liberating them.
---

Actually, PGA can be marched to Central U.S. or England (one way only!) in most of the scenarios. In some (like Campaign 41) it can even be marched to Calcutta in 1 turn! Moving it to Calcutta is super unrealistic, of course, and is also very unbalancing.

I read once about an amusing situation in PBEM where some Japanese LCU materialized at Eastern U.S. and combat ensued between it and PGA!
PGA drove the invaders off. You will want to have PGA there in case this kind of bug happens in your game. [:)] (very, very unlikely)

Naturally, you don't want to lose Eastern U.S. permanently (ditto for Central U.S. and England — remember that LCUs can be marched from Eastern U.S. to those bases).
You might even go further and divide PGA. The new batallion sub-unit will stay at Eastern U.S. as a permanent garrison while the original army unit & its division, brigade, regiment sub-units will march to Central U.S. or England, recombine there into a single PGA again and later teleport to Philippines on schedule.

This is for truly paranoid players only though.
Fishbreath
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Fishbreath »

Is there a tool I can use to see things like aircraft type statistics (I gather the ones in the manual are out of date) and aircraft factory types/activation dates (namely, is there a way to top off the Devastator or Vildebeest pools)?
Istfemer
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RE: Some first-real-playthrough questions

Post by Istfemer »

pacwared by Rich Dionne is exactly the tool you need.
It's very easy to use once you get past Excel's inherent clunkiness. [:)]
Use version 22 (pacwared22.xls), updated by Returnfire. It's the latest one.
You'll need Microsoft Excel to run it (Open Excel should work too)

I got it from here.
Attachment in the end of the first post.
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