Where to use Leaders
Moderators: Joel Billings, elmo3, Sabre21
RE: Where to use Leaders
If this is really important, I can add cavalry to count as motorized for the purposes of leader rolls (for 1.08.04).
RE: Where to use Leaders
Not for me, I just need to know if I have to assign inf or mech leader in charge.
RE: Where to use Leaders
Would be good to make the distinction between mounted infantry and a mech type cavalry for WitE2 but for now, like 821Bobo, I just need to know which to use.
“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”
-Leon Trotsky
-Leon Trotsky
RE: Where to use Leaders
ORIGINAL: morvael
If this is really important, I can add cavalry to count as motorized for the purposes of leader rolls (for 1.08.04).
I think it is more important just to know one way or the other. For the German player, it would influence whether to attach 1st Kav.D to an Inf.K or a Pz.K.
RE: Where to use Leaders
Germans have little cavalry and the 1st Division was operating with panzers. Soviet late war cavalry Corps are more like mechanized formations, should be led by tank leaders, who are scarce. Difficult choice, as there are also plain cavalry units: Rumanian, Hungarian, early Soviet.
RE: Where to use Leaders
How about making a reclassification for WitE 2, differentiating cavalry from mechanised cavalry, and using the NATO armoured recon symbol for the latter?
“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”
-Leon Trotsky
-Leon Trotsky
RE: Where to use Leaders
delete ... question answered elsewhere in the thread
RE: Where to use Leaders
The problem is mech TOE type would result in cavalry corps getting 50 MP (and no special cavalry movement costs).
RE: Where to use Leaders
Have to make unique unit type for WitE 2
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RE: Where to use Leaders
So slot #E < 10 has two rolls, INI and (INF or Mech)? What about slots #E => 10?ORIGINAL: morvael
Initiative rolls apply to:
movement points
reserves joining battle
revert to scout attack if bad odds
fire efficiency when given slot has less than 10 elements (important for big guns)
flak fire from support units attached to HQs
Infantry rolls apply to:
combat value (non-motorized unit attacker roll, non-motorized first winter penalty, non-motorized unit element roll)
fire efficiency when given slot in a non-motorized unit has less than 10 elements (important for big guns)
Mech rolls apply to:
combat value (motorized unit attacker roll, motorized first winter penalty, motorized unit element roll)
fire efficiency when given slot in a motorized unit has less than 10 elements (important for big guns)
RE: Where to use Leaders
I was not fully precise.
During fire combat there are multiple circumstances that affect the number of firing elements. Each test can multiply or divide the number of elements firing by 2 or 4 (most common values). The increased/decreased number is carried over to the next test, therefore even bigger slots are not fully safe. But the small ones have really hard time with all those divisions by 2 or 4 and integer math.
The specific tests related to leader skills are two, just as I wrote - first inf/mech skill followed by initiative. Each test will be failed when the leader will fail his roll and random(10) will be smaller than current number of elements. If the test will be failed, the number will be divided by 4. But those two tests are 8th and 9th possible modifiers, so the actual number may be way off from the real number of elements at that point.
I hope this clears the issue.
During fire combat there are multiple circumstances that affect the number of firing elements. Each test can multiply or divide the number of elements firing by 2 or 4 (most common values). The increased/decreased number is carried over to the next test, therefore even bigger slots are not fully safe. But the small ones have really hard time with all those divisions by 2 or 4 and integer math.
The specific tests related to leader skills are two, just as I wrote - first inf/mech skill followed by initiative. Each test will be failed when the leader will fail his roll and random(10) will be smaller than current number of elements. If the test will be failed, the number will be divided by 4. But those two tests are 8th and 9th possible modifiers, so the actual number may be way off from the real number of elements at that point.
I hope this clears the issue.
RE: Where to use Leaders
First paragraph is fine. Not being much of a mathematician, I've always wondered what this "random (number)" business is, which you also find in the manual. Perhaps you could explain-
"Each test will be failed when the leader fails his roll and random(10) is smaller than current number of elements"
What is random(10)? is the number random or 10? Non capito.
"Each test will be failed when the leader fails his roll and random(10) is smaller than current number of elements"
What is random(10)? is the number random or 10? Non capito.
“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”
-Leon Trotsky
-Leon Trotsky
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RE: Where to use Leaders
ORIGINAL: morvael
Germans have little cavalry and the 1st Division was operating with panzers. Soviet late war cavalry Corps are more like mechanized formations, should be led by tank leaders, who are scarce. Difficult choice, as there are also plain cavalry units: Rumanian, Hungarian, early Soviet.
Early soviets divisions (aka 22 june ) actualy suppose to have as much armor as a late war cavalry, at least until august .
3 or 4 romanian cavalry divisions were partialy motorised (1 regiment out of 3)
the hungarian cavalry brigade was also armored .
RE: Where to use Leaders
Mehring: Random and Die are explained in the manual. Random(10) is a die with faces numbered from 0 to 9. Die(10) is a die with faces numbered from 1 to 10.
Gabriel: Best solution would be to apply mech skill to cavalry units then. Reduces power of Soviet Cavalry Corps in late war (one can easily have 15-20x 20-24 CV units with 22 movement, and reduced ZOC enter cost - make them at least harder to command, because of lack of many good mech leaders, they would have to operate inside tank armies as well, rather than regulars).
Gabriel: Best solution would be to apply mech skill to cavalry units then. Reduces power of Soviet Cavalry Corps in late war (one can easily have 15-20x 20-24 CV units with 22 movement, and reduced ZOC enter cost - make them at least harder to command, because of lack of many good mech leaders, they would have to operate inside tank armies as well, rather than regulars).
RE: Where to use Leaders
Thanks morvael, must have missed that. Now a whole load will make sense when I read it again.
“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”
-Leon Trotsky
-Leon Trotsky
RE: Where to use Leaders
Hi,
but that means, a Leader with Skill 9 always passed the leader check, because Random(10) is max 9.
Nice to know and important pount.
Thx.
but that means, a Leader with Skill 9 always passed the leader check, because Random(10) is max 9.
Nice to know and important pount.
Thx.
RE: Where to use Leaders
So if you have a morale 9 leader in your highest HQ all other leaders' morale is meaningless?ORIGINAL: VigaBrand
Hi,
but that means, a Leader with Skill 9 always passed the leader check, because Random(10) is max 9.
Nice to know and important pount.
Thx.
“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”
-Leon Trotsky
-Leon Trotsky
RE: Where to use Leaders
First of all there is a ton of modifiers that are added/substracted either to/from the value inside Random and to leader skill.
Besides the sign < is used most often, so tests when you roll a 9 are failed (9 is not < 9).
Besides the sign < is used most often, so tests when you roll a 9 are failed (9 is not < 9).
RE: Where to use Leaders
Thanks, sounds better.
“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”
-Leon Trotsky
-Leon Trotsky
RE: Where to use Leaders
Ah, yes my fault. [&o]ORIGINAL: morvael
First of all there is a ton of modifiers that are added/substracted either to/from the value inside Random and to leader skill.
Besides the sign < is used most often, so tests when you roll a 9 are failed (9 is not < 9).
I know the modifiers described in the manual.