Do you have the EF option on or not

tiger111 · Post by **tiger111** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:43 pm

Please give short reason why you choose to tick the EF or not

scout1 · Post by **scout1** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:43 pm

Go read the AAR between ultradave and myself (scout1) .... I'm the germans have have aggressively pulled units to the west front ...BIGTIME .... Yet Uncle Joe seems indifferent as to taking advantage of it .... Until this issue is addressed, don't play a human with EF on

Q-Ball · Post by **Q-Ball** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:58 pm

ORIGINAL: scout1

Go read the AAR between ultradave and myself (scout1) .... I'm the germans have have aggressively pulled units to the west front ...BIGTIME .... Yet Uncle Joe seems indifferent as to taking advantage of it .... Until this issue is addressed, don't play a human with EF on

Yes, check it out as I posted my screen as a comparison.

The EF Box is broken; all games should play without it if you want something close to an even game

It's too bad, because it's nice chrome, but it isn't balanced

ultradave · Post by **ultradave** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:27 pm

Yup. Agree. I'm the WA in that game and I'm completely blocked. I'm pretty sure I'm outnumbered in the west as the Germans everywhere are 2 and 3 deep. No possible way to achieve a breakout from my footholds, unless I can miraculously put through another successful invasion.

Q-Ball · Post by **Q-Ball** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:59 am

ORIGINAL: ultradave

Yup. Agree. I'm the WA in that game and I'm completely blocked. I'm pretty sure I'm outnumbered in the west as the Germans everywhere are 2 and 3 deep. No possible way to achieve a breakout from my footholds, unless I can miraculously put through another successful invasion.

Your opponent pulled every Panzer division except 1.....the entire Werhmacht Panzer Corps is in the West. So no wonder you're blocked. I am grateful he did that as an experiment, but there's no way the Germans can lose if you do that, and don't pay a severe price in the east

sven6345789 · Post by **sven6345789** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:25 pm

as much as i know you pay a VP penalty if the sowjets advance farther west than historical. Who knows, the severe price might still be coming.
But the designers said themselves that right now the eastfront box does not work the way they planned it to work. They are working on it.

I am also grateful someone tested the box to the limit!

scout1 · Post by **scout1** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:34 pm

Yup. Agree. I'm the WA in that game and I'm completely blocked. I'm pretty sure I'm outnumbered in the west as the Germans everywhere are 2 and 3 deep. No possible way to achieve a breakout from my footholds, unless I can miraculously put through another successful invasion.

I know you're planning one .... better pound the crap out of the rail system first though .....

Joel Billings · Post by **Joel Billings** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:19 pm

We've made several adjustments to the EF option in the upcoming public beta version:

3. East Front Transfers (section 23.2.4) - Air groups will now cause morale changes per rule 23.2.4. Previously only ground units did this. The more a/c in the group the greater the likelihood of morale changes. Increased the morale gain/loss due to the movement of ground forces to/from the East Front. Also, the movement of motorized units now has a somewhat higher impact on morale than non-motorized units.
4. Adjusted calculation of CV value of artillery and flak units in the East Front to include the morale of the unit. Also reduced CV values of on-map artillery units on the Eastern Front.

IMHO, a player that doesn't take a large number of units off the East Front before these recent changes will probably find playing without the EF easier. Player's that take a large number of units off the East Front should see the East Front advance west quicker, but that doesn't appear to be happening as much as it should. We think the changes above will improve the situation.

ultradave · Post by **ultradave** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:10 pm

Scott wasn't trying to intentionally break things either. It started as just him trying to stop my advances, and then when he wasn't paying a penalty, he kept going (why not, right?).

It will be interesting to play again and see how it goes. Right now we're playing another campaign with the EF box turned off. We haven't gotten far enough to notice the difference yet, as I just finished mopping up Sicily.

scout1 · Post by **scout1** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:07 pm

We've made several adjustments to the EF option in the upcoming public beta version: 3. East Front Transfers (section 23.2.4) - Air groups will now cause morale changes per rule 23.2.4. Previously only ground units did this. The more a/c in the group the greater the likelihood of morale changes. Increased the morale gain/loss due to the movement of ground forces to/from the East Front. Also, the movement of motorized units now has a somewhat higher impact on morale than non-motorized units. 4. Adjusted calculation of CV value of artillery and flak units in the East Front to include the morale of the unit. Also reduced CV values of on-map artillery units on the Eastern Front. IMHO, a player that doesn't take a large number of units off the East Front before these recent changes will probably find playing without the EF easier. Player's that take a large number of units off the East Front should see the East Front advance west quicker, but that doesn't appear to be happening as much as it should. We think the changes above will improve the situation.

Just so you know Joel, I didn't take any air groups, artillery, or flak units .... Mostly started grabbing Infantry ... then stepped up to armor and mechanized ... eventually began grabbing HQ'a (corps first) then moved my way up the food chain to army group.

scout1 · Post by **scout1** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:10 pm

ORIGINAL: ultradave

Scott wasn't trying to intentionally break things either. It started as just him trying to stop my advances, and then when he wasn't paying a penalty, he kept going (why not, right?).

It will be interesting to play again and see how it goes. Right now we're playing another campaign with the EF box turned off. We haven't gotten far enough to notice the difference yet, as I just finished mopping up Sicily.

Scott wasn't trying to intentionally break things either. It started as just him trying to stop my advances, and then when he wasn't paying a penalty, he kept going (why not, right?). It will be interesting to play again and see how it goes. Right now we're playing another campaign with the EF box turned off. We haven't gotten far enough to notice the difference yet, as I just finished mopping up Sicily.

Dave is correct .... At this point we're continuing this game for
a) our learning aspect in general
b) to establish the EF-robber performance baseline .... though I know its frustrating for Dave ..... He'll get even in our new game w/o EF box ......

Joel Billings · Post by **Joel Billings** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:57 pm

Appreciate the info on your games. What we were surprised with was that your CV values were able to stay so high even after the withdrawals. Artillery, especialy on-map artillery unis were a part of that. Also, the fact that they weren't being impacted by any change in their morale. Now they will be, and units should suffer greater morale hits as you withdraw units so everyone should get weaker.

Do you have the EF option on or not

Do you have the EF option on or not

RE: Do you have the EF option on or not

RE: Do you have the EF option on or not

RE: Do you have the EF option on or not

RE: Do you have the EF option on or not

RE: Do you have the EF option on or not

RE: Do you have the EF option on or not

RE: Do you have the EF option on or not

RE: Do you have the EF option on or not

RE: Do you have the EF option on or not

RE: Do you have the EF option on or not

RE: Do you have the EF option on or not