stupid sub question

[pontiouspilot]

I never thought about this before...how did WW2 ASW ships differentiate friend from foe? The reason I ask is that right now I have a game where dozens of subs from 4 countries are all jammed into the crowded and shallow seas around DEI.

Were there any instances of friend sinking friend?

[rockmedic109]

I just read of a friendly fire incident sinking a sub. What I remember is that the sub was in the approved "lane" but was a day late. That would indicate a plan in place {at least later in the war} to keep it from happening.

[m10bob]

Submarines
7Dec41. Thresher (SS-200) fired upon by a destroyer as she tried to return to Pearl Harbor from a month-long patrol off Midway. She immediately went deep to avoid the attentions of "friendly forces." She again tried to enter the harbor on the 8th, but was driven off by depth-bombs from a patrol plane. A few weeks later, another overzealous Navy plane attacked the sub on 24 February but, fortunately, did not damage the submarine.

20Dec41 . SBD's from carrier Enterprise accidentally bomb submarine Pompano (SS-181) - twice.

24Jan42 . Submarine S-26 (SS-131) is accidentally rammed and sunk by submarine chaser PC-460 in Gulf of Panama. PC-460 rescues three survivors. Despite a search by the patrol craft and the other three submarines in company, no other survivors are found; 46 men lose their lives in the mishap.

7June42. Submarine Grayling (SS-209) is bombed (but not damaged) by USAAF B-17's in aftermath of the Battle of Midway.

12June42 . USAAF B-17's and B-24's raid Kiska. Submarine Plunger (SS-179) is damaged when emergency identification flare explodes as she makes signal to friendly aircraft.

13July42 . Submarine S-16 (SS-121) is accidentally damaged by USAAF plane off coast of Panama.

19Nov43. At Tarawa, mistaking her as an enemy, USS Ringgold fired at Nautilus (SS-168), sending a five inch shell through the conning tower

03Oct44 . Shelton (DE-407) is sunk by Japanese submarine RO-41 off Morotai. During the ensuing antisubmarine operations, unaware of the proximity of friendly submarines, Richard M. Rowell (DE-403), accidentally sinks Seawolf (SS-197), which is transporting U.S. Army personnel to the east coast of Samar, P.I.

Self Destruction
Circling torpedoes :
16May41. USS Tautog, goes deep to escape her own torpedo.
23May43. one of Whale's torpedoes circles back toward her, forcing the boat to "go deep" but then heads back and hits the target.
26March44. Submarine Tullibee (SS-284) is sunk by circular run of own torpedo, north of the Palaus
24May44. Submarine Flying Fish (SS-229) is damaged by premature explosion of own torpedo, Philippine Sea, but remains on patrol. 24Oct44. Submarine Tang (SS-306) sinks Japanese merchant cargo ship Ebara Maru in Formosa Strait and damages tanker Matsumoto Maru, but is herself sunk by the circular run of one of her own torpedoes.
Now that is friendly fire.
As are planes that flew so low they were destroyed in the blast of their own bombs.

1988. USS Atule (SS-403) was lost with the loss of an unknown number officers and men when it was sunk (as Peruvian submarine Pachocha) after being rammed by a Japanese merchantman off Callao, Peru. The Atule's death is rather ironic. A warship that was built for the sole purpose of sinking Japanese merchant and warships was sunk 43 years later by a Japanese merchant ship.




http://www.ww2pacific.com/friendly.html

[crsutton]

There were protocols, recognition signals, safe lanes and such to prevent friendly fire. As M10bob points out it did not always work. Two or three subs were actually lost to friendly fire. Seawolf being one, and Dolphin in the Caribbean are two that I know of.

[dr.hal]

What about the USS Tang? SS 306 sunk but its own torpedo at the end of one of the most successful attacks in US sub history. 24 Oct 44. The skipper go the Medal of Honor and was one of four to survive.

[dr.hal]

But in answer to your question Pontious, the only was was through the dissemination of a sub's patrol area. If the sub wandered outside of that without permission, it was subject to attack.