Did the Dutch resupply Java in 1942?

[Yaab]

I know there were American convoys to Java, but I cannot find any information about Dutch convoys to Java between Dec 7, 1941 and the start of the Japanese invasion of Java. The Dutch government was in exile in London, the Dutch continental industry lost to the Germans. Does that mean Java was resupplied with British equipment from London or British colonies (Ceylon, India etc.) or the Dutch only had their pre-war stocks of tankettes, armored cars and army guns?

Also, there is HI and LI on Java. Were any factories on Java involved in military production (machine guns, 75mm guns etc)?

Thanks

[wdolson]

The Dutch OOB was mostly pre-war equipment. In late 1940 or early 1941 they saw the handwriting on the wall and knew war with Japan was coming. They searched the world for suppliers and the British didn't have much to spare. The US was about the only game in town, so they placed some fairly large orders for American aircraft. The US aircraft industry was struggling to expand the US military as well as supply Britain, so there were some delays until the end of 1941. The first aircraft had arrived in Australia, but hadn't been delivered yet when the war broke out. Some of the equipment made it to the DEI, but some got pinched in Australia (like a bunch of B-25s). Some other aircraft were lost with ship sinkings, the Langley being the best known.

I don't believe the DEI had much in the way of armaments factories. There was no need for them before the Netherlands was overrun by the Germans in 1940. Most people thought the Germans would leave the Netherlands alone like they did in WWI, so there were few contingency plans for running the colonies with the home country occupied. I suspect most of the limited industry in the DEI was oil field related and possibly some minor ship repair industry (machine shops to make some parts locally when merchant ships needed work).

Some was probably converted to make things like ammunition, especially small arms ammunition when the Netherlands fell, but they had a very small base to work with. The DEI was a big resource colony with a fairly small white, Dutch administration and military controlling a very large population of natives who were poorly educated and didn't really want them there to begin with.

Bill

[m10bob]

These may be helpful?

http://ww2db.com/country/dutch_east_indies


http://dutcheastindies.webs.com/

[Anthropoid]

Interesting stuff Bob.

The islands were the Netherland's main source of raw materials; very little industry was developed in the Dutch East Indies. In the 1900s the Dutch began to implement better flood control, education, and other programs to help the colonial subjects, but ultimately these programs were not effective. As main the interest for the Dutch colonial administration for the colony was trade, the Dutch language was never forced upon the local population; instead, the popular Riau dialect of Malay language was adopted as the official language so that trade would not be hindered

Clearly the Dutch colonial officials did not enjoy the insights of having played Civilization.

[Dutch_slith]

Braat Metalworks at Soerabaia (Overvalwagen)
Ammunition Factory at Bandoeng

Anything else came from abroad

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The Dutch OOB was mostly pre-war equipment. In late 1940 or early 1941 they saw the handwriting on the wall and knew war with Japan was coming. They searched the world for suppliers and the British didn't have much to spare. The US was about the only game in town, so they placed some fairly large orders for American aircraft. The US aircraft industry was struggling to expand the US military as well as supply Britain, so there were some delays until the end of 1941. The first aircraft had arrived in Australia, but hadn't been delivered yet when the war broke out. Some of the equipment made it to the DEI, but some got pinched in Australia (like a bunch of B-25s). Some other aircraft were lost with ship sinkings, the Langley being the best known.

I don't believe the DEI had much in the way of armaments factories. There was no need for them before the Netherlands was overrun by the Germans in 1940. Most people thought the Germans would leave the Netherlands alone like they did in WWI, so there were few contingency plans for running the colonies with the home country occupied. I suspect most of the limited industry in the DEI was oil field related and possibly some minor ship repair industry (machine shops to make some parts locally when merchant ships needed work).

Some was probably converted to make things like ammunition, especially small arms ammunition when the Netherlands fell, but they had a very small base to work with. The DEI was a big resource colony with a fairly small white, Dutch administration and military controlling a very large population of natives who were poorly educated and didn't really want them there to begin with.

Bill

I don't Believe there were any a/c destined for Dutch use on the Langley. Otherwise, I think you are right on. They also received some PBY's before and after
the war in the East started. The British tried to lay their hand on these, proclaiming to need them more than the Dutch, which the Dutch refused. In the end I
believe they transferred five of them to the USN as they lacked pilots. Their Hawk 75 fighters were also diverted to the Dutch East Indies after the German
invasion of the Netherlands.

Fred

[Yaab]

Thanks you for your feedback.

So far, I have used Java as a place to feed US army in the Phillipines. Ship supplies from Sorebaja to Manila, while new supply ships from Ceylon to Batavia, while Ceylon is fed by India/Cape Town. But is just too abstract, and I want to play somewhat more realistically, without the Commonwealth supplies magically used by the Dutch.

Harald, thanks for the tip on the Bandoeng ammo factory.

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Thanks you for your feedback.

So far, I have used Java as a place to feed US army in the Phillipines. Ship supplies from Sorebaja to Manila, while new supply ships from Ceylon to Batavia, while Ceylon is fed by India/Cape Town. But is just too abstract, and I want to play somewhat more realistically, without the Commonwealth supplies magically used by the Dutch.

Harald, thanks for the tip on the Bandoeng ammo factory.

Hi, Yaab - I don't really know how the game works as of yet - so far I'm just studying it. But, there were ships that got through from Australia, if not to
Luzon so to Mindanao and Cebu. One even passed North of New Guinea, entering the Philippines from the east. If you want to be realistic you could also sneak
along the Western side of Papua. Even if the Japanese took Ambon and Menado quite early they didn't jump over to Papua untill May. I would think that more
realistic than passing between Borneo and Celebes or through the central Moluccans. Just my opinion...[:)]

Fred

[m10bob]

IMHO, (and that of millions of former G.I.'s), the best thing to come from Java is "Reis Taffel", a fantastic 20 dish concoction which fills an entire picnic sized table with everything from BBQ pork and beef, to shrimp toast,chicken, and just about anything you might imagine. You feel like a kid lost in a toy store when it arrives!!

Seriously the Langley WAS headed for Java as Bill sez but I am not sure who was to fly them.
The Nederlanders knew how to fly the Brewsters as well as the Finns, and Geoff Fisken of New Zealand was also a Brewster ace, so you cannot discount even THAT plane..
This was his Brewster.

[Anthropoid]

Against the AI in WiTP, I seem to recall pretty routinely holding out in one more strategic locations in DEI into at least autumn 1942, so I was surprised to read this:

The Dutch ground forces, though slightly better armed than their counterparts in Europe during the German invasion in 1940, were unable to stop the Japanese invasion and surrendered on 8 Mar 1942. This ended 300 years of Dutch influence in the South Pacific.

With my first ever PBEM turn one coming to me any time now, I'm curious: how rare is it that an allied player (in a PBEM) manages to hold on to strategic locations in DEI, Malaysia or Philippines for longer times?

[crsutton]

The Dutch colonial system mirrored the other European colonial systems where the colonies were viewed as a source of raw material to be exploited but not encouraged to be a source of major manufacturing. The economic model is that the colonies would provide the raw stuff to the parent nation who would then sell back manufactured goods to the colonies-making lots of money in the process and protecting the manufacturing base in the home country. Thus the establishment of major manufacturing was not encouraged in the DEI or in any European colonies of the day. Many colonial powers instituted laws or heavy tax penalties to discourage the growth of manufacturing. This was the colonial model and had not changed for hundreds of years. One of the key reasons why the American colonies broke away from England.

Once the line to Holland was severed, the DEI was pretty much defenseless.

[m10bob]

Not so off topic...This is what the Langley looked like on her final mission.
Some SCUBA crews playground now..

[Yaab]

I meant I can bring TONS of supply to Java from Ceylon/India/Australia in a very short time,while at the same time move thousands of supplies from Java to Manila, but I went off the beaten track to explore a more historical avenue of approach, and make the game a bit challenging for myself. Would Australian supply magically turn itself into Overlawagens and 8cm Bofors guns once on Java, just to mutate later at Sorebaja docks into a 75mm GMC AFV or 37mm canister ammo boxes bound for Manila? In game - yes, in real life - no.

Java has a so-so supply production, and I was wandering if the supply had been boosted by some external Dutch convoys after Dec 7, 1941. Is seems there weren't any, and the Dutch (unlike Commonwealth nations who can fall on UK/convoys to meet their supply needs) have no additional sources of Dutch-produced supply. Thus, any additional supply that comes to Java has to arrive from USA/Commonwealth with the caveat that USA/Commonwealth units must come along to use this supply. I hope to achieve a more realistic, slower-paced game and the last stand at Bandoeng.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Not so off topic...This is what the Langley looked like on her final mission.
Some SCUBA crews playground now..

I count 25 P40s on the deck alone. Damn, I really could use those fighters right now!

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

With my first ever PBEM turn one coming to me any time now, I'm curious: how rare is it that an allied player (in a PBEM) manages to hold on to strategic locations in DEI, Malaysia or Philippines for longer times?

I don't know, but it seems routine in AARs I have read that the Allied player still holds something in DEI in April or even May. In my game, however, I am likely to set a record in the other direction. [:o]

[m10bob]

I generally hang on to Padang the whole time..It makes a great base to harrass the enemy till you can srt retaking soil.

[Anthropoid]

Yeah Padang, Sibolga, even Benkoelen and Sabang . . . did the Japanese actually overrun these locations? Or for that matter, _all_ of Java? Or was it more a matter of the Japanese having taken certain key strategic locations like Soerbaja, Batavia, Balikpapin, Tarakan, Makassar, etc. and so the Dutch just surrendered?

[Jim D Burns]

The Dutch also purchased a lot of tanks from the US, not just aircraft. Here's a good site covering all/most of the different tanks they used.

http://www.overvalwagen.com/tanks.html

This page talks about the Braat Metalwork’s in Surabaya that produced the indigenous armored cars, so there is definitely an armaments industry on the island:

http://www.overvalwagen.com/overval2.html

I think the game may be missing these AT guns lol:



Jim

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

IMHO, (and that of millions of former G.I.'s), the best thing to come from Java is "Reis Taffel", a fantastic 20 dish concoction which fills an entire picnic sized table with everything from BBQ pork and beef, to shrimp toast,chicken, and just about anything you might imagine. You feel like a kid lost in a toy store when it arrives!!

Seriously the Langley WAS headed for Java as Bill sez but I am not sure who was to fly them.
The Nederlanders knew how to fly the Brewsters as well as the Finns, and Geoff Fisken of New Zealand was also a Brewster ace, so you cannot discount even THAT plane..
This was his Brewster.

They also flew the Hawk 75 - the export version of the P-36, so they could probably have converted to the P-40's onboard the Langley quite fast even if the P-36
was an easier (better) plane to fly. And I don't mean the Hawk-version flown by the Dutch, they were equipped with the unreliable (in fighter use) Wright Cyclone
engine. However, I mean to have read that the planes came with US pilots, some of them on a paralell ship.

Fred

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Not so off topic...This is what the Langley looked like on her final mission.
Some SCUBA crews playground now..

I count 25 P40s on the deck alone. Damn, I really could use those fighters right now!

Actually, I believe there were more than 30 P-40's on Langley.

Fred